Tulsa shooting

[percho]

Until the following takes place, methinks we best hold onto our arms and try to hold on to, our freedom, in the kingdoms of this world. Lord teach us to pray. From Luke 11:1

Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms [fn NU-Text and M-Text read kingdom . . . has become.] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Pray for the feast of trumpets.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

And the day of atonement

IMHO

 

[Reformed1689]

Again, God explicitly gives government the right to use deadly force against evil doers. You want to use a gun...then enter law enforcement. Otherwise, throw out your killing tool.

Um, no, that's not entirely true. Ever read Exodus 22?

 

[AustinC]

Um, no, that's not entirely true. Ever read Exodus 22?

You realize that Israel was a nation under theocratic rule and the US ain't Israel. Now if you lived back then, you might have a point, but not now. The only law that is retained in the New Covenant is God's moral law, the 10 Commandments. Care for a second go?

 

[5 point Gillinist]

It actually would drastically reduce the number of people who had guns and therefore (because anyone with a gun has the capacity to be a criminal) help solve the issue.

In the flip side, your position simply propagates the problem in an ever spiraling disorder. You keep adding guns. Then those gun owners become the criminals. So you get bigger guns. Then those with bigger guns become the criminals. So you get bigger guns...
It's a spiraling, negative behavior.

Take the guns away and the potential for being a gun wielding criminal gets less and less.

Again, God explicitly gives government the right to use deadly force against evil doers. You want to use a gun...then enter law enforcement. Otherwise, throw out your killing tool.

So my family and I are dead because Austin's solution is to disarm the law abiding so that the criminals will have free reign with their guns.
And I am an LEO, so I have some experience with criminals that have guns, who didn't go to the local gun store and pass an FBI background check to buy them.

 

[AustinC]

So my family and I are dead because Austin's solution is to disarm the law abiding so that the criminals will have free reign with their guns.
And I am an LEO, so I have some experience with criminals that have guns, who didn't go to the local gun store and pass an FBI background check to buy them.

Are you all Christians? God just brought you home and out of exile. It's a time for you to rejoice.
God give LE the task to deal with criminals, not us, the general citizen, that task.

 

[Salty]

Are you all Christians? God just brought you home and out of exile. It's a time for you to rejoice.
God give LE the task to deal with criminals, not us, the general citizen, that task.

Sounds like that a Christian should not be an LEO?

 

[5 point Gillinist]

Are you all Christians? God just brought you home and out of exile. It's a time for you to rejoice.
God give LE the task to deal with criminals, not us, the general citizen, that task.

Right so in the pentateuch where it says it is lawful to kill an intruder, I guess we'll just dismiss that by saying that was only for Israel. How do we know that all the people killed in the TX shooting weren't Christians? I guess by your logic that shooting was a good thing. Pushing that line of logic to consistency we also shouldn't fight against abortion due to the fact that the murdered children go to heaven.

 

[Reformed1689]

You realize that Israel was a nation under theocratic rule and the US ain't Israel. Now if you lived back then, you might have a point, but not now. The only law that is retained in the New Covenant is God's moral law, the 10 Commandments. Care for a second go?

Care to show where God DOES NOT ALLOW for self defense? That's absurd.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Q: "If the government tells you that a steer's tail counts as a leg, then how many legs does a normal steer have?"
A: "4. Because a tail isn't a leg"

The Supreme Court is welcome to interpret things to their hearts content while sitting in their cute little black dresses they wear. But good luck enforcing it. Let's pretend 10% of Americans get agitated enough by illegal supreme court judgements that they do something along the lines of the Classical Protestant Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates and rebel.

10% of the U.S is 30 million armed rednecks, farmers, welders, hillbillies, police, firefighters and more. Good luck quenching that fire...

Let's say several lesser magistrates, governors in this case, refuse to collaborate with the Feds and nullify the ruling. Are the Feds going to force these states to acquiesce? What are the Feds going to do?
Park tanks in Appalachia?
Garrison Texas?
Patrol Iowa?
Fly sorties over Tennessee?

That sounds like the setup to another War Between the States and sounds like very, very bad idea.

 

[AustinC]

Q: "If the government tells you that a steer's tail counts as a leg, then how many legs does a normal steer have?"
A: "4. Because a tail isn't a leg"

The Supreme Court is welcome to interpret things to their hearts content while sitting in their cute little black dresses they wear. But good luck enforcing it. Let's pretend 10% of Americans get agitated enough by illegal supreme court judgements that they do something along the lines of the Classical Protestant Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates and rebel.

10% of the U.S is 30 million armed rednecks, farmers, welders, hillbillies, police, firefighters and more. Good luck quenching that fire...

Let's say several lesser magistrates, governors in this case, refuse to collaborate with the Feds and nullify the ruling. Are the Feds going to force these states to acquiesce? What are the Feds going to do?
Park tanks in Appalachia?
Garrison Texas?
Patrol Iowa?
Fly sorties over Tennessee?

That sounds like the setup to another War Between the States and sounds like very, very bad idea.

Thumper do you recognize your rebellion against God in your post here?
God does not give His children this license to revolt.

 

[Conan]

Are you all Christians? God just brought you home and out of exile. It's a time for you to rejoice.
God give LE the task to deal with criminals, not us, the general citizen, that task.

When a neighbor is being attacked, if it is within your power you have to stop the attack. If you have to use deadly force to stop the attack then the law says use deadly force. Why then does the law allow citizens the right to use deadly force when the situation calls for it! If you are not capable to help then say so at least we can understand you.

 

[Salty]

Thumper do you recognize your rebellion against God in your post here?
God does not give His children this license to revolt.

Like back in 1776?

 

[Salty]

Thumper do you recognize your rebellion against God in your post here?
God does not give His children this license to revolt.

Like back in 1776?

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Thumper do you recognize your rebellion against God in your post here?
God does not give His children this license to revolt.

It's not a revolt, it's a holding fast to Caesar rather than man's whims. I am in the same company as Luther and Calvin on this issue. This is a historical and tested Protestant doctrine developed over centuries of study: Lesser magistrate - Wikipedia

It's not a revolt, it's supporting our governing documents. Just as the U.S Revolution was not a revolt, it was a Conservative (governing-document (Magna Carta) backing) backlash asking the King to abide by English Law, Customs and Rights. It was the King who broke the law and revolted against it as a criminal. The Revolution was Pro-Rule of Law.

This doctrine has already come up recently, although it hasn't been called by its name. Recall we had Sheriffs refusing to enforce Governors orders on curfews, vaccine mandates and Church services because the Sheriffs said it violated the Constitution. This is a prime and recent example of the Lesser Magistrates Doctrine in action where two magistrates (Governor vs. Sheriff) both with God-given Governing authority tell the populace they can do two opposite things. Each person in the populace has got to choose who to obey. To obey one is to automatically disobey the other. It's our job as Christians to determine which of the two authorities is acting closest to God's Word in that instance and act on it.

 

[AustinC]

It's not a revolt, it's a holding fast to Caesar rather than man's whims. I am in the same company as Luther and Calvin on this issue. This is a historical and tested Protestant doctrine developed over centuries of study: Lesser magistrate - Wikipedia

It's not a revolt, it's supporting our governing documents. Just as the U.S Revolution was not a revolt, it was a Conservative (governing-document (Magna Carta) backing) backlash asking the King to abide by English Law, Customs and Rights. It was the King who broke the law and revolted against it as a criminal. The Revolution was Pro-Rule of Law.

This doctrine has already come up recently, although it hasn't been called by its name. Recall we had Sheriffs refusing to enforce Governors orders on curfews, vaccine mandates and Church services because the Sheriffs said it violated the Constitution. This is a prime and recent example of the Lesser Magistrates Doctrine in action where two magistrates (Governor vs. Sheriff) both with God-given Governing authority tell the populace they can do two opposite things. Each person in the populace has got to choose who to obey. To obey one is to automatically disobey the other. It's our job as Christians to determine which of the two authorities is acting closest to God's Word in that instance and act on it.

No, you are not in the same position as Luther or Calvin.
Reform did not mean revolt. Any Christian taking up arms against a government is in direct disobedience of God.
Those Anabaptists who called for anarchy were justly killed by the government. Luther supported the government in stopping the peasants revolt.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

And on that note, this thread is closed.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

And on that note, this thread is closed.