Turkey and Armenia resolutio

[menageriekeeper]

I'm starting a new thread cause it appears the one in the News forum has been somewhat hijacked and I don't want to wade through all of it to try to find the answer to my question.

I would also like everyone's opinion, regardless of nationality. I believe it to be very shortsighted to not considered the opinions of our neighbors, plus there's this whole "love your neighbors" thing that I seem to be commanded to do.

OK so the question is:

Why should today's Turkish government be responsible for/apologize for something an entirely different government (the Ottomans) did?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

They shouldn't. And we shouldn't be concerned with what the Ottoman Empire did in 1915 either. Especially with repercussions in today's world. The time to condemn it was 1915.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Which brings into question the motive and the timing of this now.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Which brings into question the motive and the timing of this now.

A congressman with Armenian-American constituents perhaps?

 

[menageriekeeper]

It seems France passed a similar resolution a couple of years ago. I'm interested in hearing the motivation of such. I mean Lenin and Stalin engaged in atrocities that were similar and we're not going to Putin and askng him to apologize for what they did and Putin is a product of that regime.

 

[StefanM]

Should the present nation of Turkey apologize for the atrocities of 1915? Yes.

Should they personally be held accountable? No. However, their unwillingness to acknowledge the reality of the horrendous acts of the past sends the wrong message. Does anyone think it would be suitable for Germany to deny the Holocaust on the grounds that contemporary Germans were not party to the atrocities?

We get all fired up whenever someone denies the Holocaust or suggests that it was limited in scope, but it's A-ok to do the very same thing with the Armenian genocide? To do either is morally wrong.

We must show moral leadership in this area.

-the great-grandson of an Armenian refugee

 

[StefanM]

It seems France passed a similar resolution a couple of years ago. I'm interested in hearing the motivation of such. I mean Lenin and Stalin engaged in atrocities that were similar and we're not going to Putin and askng him to apologize for what they did and Putin is a product of that regime.

Yet we will identify his wicked deeds according to their wicked nature. We won't refuse to condemn Stalin's horrendous acts for political purposes.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I'm still not getting the point, possibly because I don't know enough history to understand what makes this event stand out from other atrocities committed in the same time period and why we are concerned, 90 years later, with making resolutions that clearly offend an ally.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

I'm still not getting the point, possibly because I don't know enough history to understand what makes this event stand out from other atrocities committed in the same time period and why we are concerned, 90 years later, with making resolutions that clearly offend an ally.

And at this spefific time.

 

[KenH]

We must show moral leadership in this area.

Amen, brother.

I find it interesting that people who claim that we had to take out Saddam Hussein for moral reasons and that we have to now stay in Iraq for moral reasons all of a sudden have their moral compass go blank on the genocide committed toward Armenians.

 

[StefanM]

I'm still not getting the point, possibly because I don't know enough history to understand what makes this event stand out from other atrocities committed in the same time period and why we are concerned, 90 years later, with making resolutions that clearly offend an ally.

We have no problem calling a spade a spade in reference to pretty much every other genocide.

Hitler made specific reference to the Armenian genocide in his planning of the "Final Solution." We have no problem calling the Holocaust a genocide. Why do we have a problem calling the mass killing of the Armenian people a genocide? Is it because only 1 million were affected instead of 6?

The reason this is an issue is because the US gov't has spent years after years ignoring this very problem. The only reason it's 90+ years after the fact is that the gov't has consistently refused to do the right thing.

In Turkey, it is illegal to speak about the Armenian genocide. If you say that the Turkish government of 1915 had any part in the genocide of the Armenians, the CURRENT government of Turkey will throw you in jail, that is, if you survive any potential assassination attempt (google "Hrant Dink").

If we want to encourage freedom and democracy in the Middle East, standing up to the Turkish denial machine is a good start.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Amen, brother.

I find it interesting that people who claim that we had to take out Saddam Hussein for moral reasons and that we have to now stay in Iraq for moral reasons all of a sudden have their moral compass go blank on the genocide committed toward Armenians.

Who are these people?

 

[KenH]

Who are these people?

I am simply referring to what I have read in commentary in various places by supporters of continued U.S. military presence in Iraq.

I wasn't referring to you, Timmy.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Stephan, I still don't understand why this is important.

Genocide unfortunately happens way too often. Our country could make resolutions for a year and still not recognize them all. This one happened, as far as I can tell, by a government that doesn't exist anymore. So, what makes this episode in history so important to an average American that we would support interfering in what appears to be an internal issue with the people of a country that is our ally?

Merely saying it is the just thing to do is not helping me to understand the reasoning behind this resolution.

 

[Eliyahu]

Turkey is not the country for the Christians to trust on.

They deny the true facts of the history.

Even today Turkey occupies the territory of Armenia.

Turkish torture and kill the Christian believers even today. They also persecute the Kurds. It is one of axis of evil too.

Turkey must be dissolved by allowing the independence of the Kurds, and returning the territory of Armenia to Armenians, then it will be a much smaller country. Throughout the history, Turkey persecuted the Christians in Bosnia, Bulgaria, Armenia, Greece, etc. It is time for U.S. to treat them as they deserve.

 

[Ps104_33]

A congressman with Armenian-American constituents perhaps?

Baloney. This dastardly deed was a calculated plot by Pelosi and the Democrats to toss a monkey wrench into the recent successes in Iraq. It was pure underhanded treachery on the part of the Democrats. The timing is obvious and anyone who doesnt see it is willingly ignorant.



"Legislation similar to this has come up repeatedly in Congress, yet it's always been defeated - in 2000, because of pressure from the Clinton administration. But if the resolution passes the House and Senate now, the Turks plan to evict us from Incirlik airbase in southeastern Turkey, to halt our military over-flight privileges and to shut down the supply routes into northern Iraq.
That's what the Democrats are aiming at. This resolution isn't about justice for the Armenians. Not this time. It's a stunningly devious attempt to impede our war effort in Iraq and force premature troop withdrawals. The Dems calculate that, without those flights and convoys, we won't be able to keep our troops adequately supplied. Key intelligence and strike missions would disappear"

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/playing_politics_with_genocide.htm

 

[KenH]

These United States stood up to Turkey over Cyprus without incident, so I see no reason why we shouldn't stand up to Turkey over this. If it is true that Iraq will descend into even worse chaos than it is already in if U.S. troops come home to their families and loved ones then surely it would not be in Turkey's interest to see that happen and, therefore, Turkey may remonstrate but it won't really do anything.

Also, with Turkey threatening to invade northern Iraq anyway perhaps this resolution might give it pause.

 

[carpro]

Baloney. This dastardly deed was a calculated plot by Pelosi and the Democrats to toss a monkey wrench into the recent successes in Iraq. It was pure underhanded treachery on the part of the Democrats. The timing is obvious and anyone who doesnt see it is willingly ignorant.



"Legislation similar to this has come up repeatedly in Congress, yet it's always been defeated - in 2000, because of pressure from the Clinton administration. But if the resolution passes the House and Senate now, the Turks plan to evict us from Incirlik airbase in southeastern Turkey, to halt our military over-flight privileges and to shut down the supply routes into northern Iraq.
That's what the Democrats are aiming at. This resolution isn't about justice for the Armenians. Not this time. It's a stunningly devious attempt to impede our war effort in Iraq and force premature troop withdrawals. The Dems calculate that, without those flights and convoys, we won't be able to keep our troops adequately supplied. Key intelligence and strike missions would disappear"

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/playing_politics_with_genocide.htm

Nailed!!! :applause:

 

[menageriekeeper]

What makes this period of time so divisive that the Armenians would allow their history to be used in such a glaringly obvious way?

 

[Ps104_33]

But the question must be asked of the Democrats. Why now? Is this the proper time to bring up such an issue? Their sudden compassion for the feelings of the Armenians is a ruse. The Armenian people are pawns in the hands of the democrats. I dont understand why this isnt getting more attention which is why I ressurrected this story from the back pages of this message board. The democrats, who say that they are against this war are trying to create another front in the war because they cant stand the fact that violence in Iraq is starting to simmer. This is one of the most nefarious political schemes I have ever heard of. Adolf Hitler couldnt come up with a plan as unseemly as this.