Turn Your Back This Fourth of July

[poncho]

My friend Danny was an individual soldier. He went to Iraq and helped overthrow the evil dictator that our own government helped put in power. He came back as did 200,000 other individual soldiers with unexplainable health problems. What was their reward? A few medals from a government that refused to even to admit they had a war related injury. And a nation that turned it's back on and to this day will not admit that those 200,000 injured "warfighters" are casualties of a needless war.

I honor them by remembering their sacrifice.

And what about the 22 Iraq war vets that take their own lives every single day because they are sick and can't live with what their government ordered them to do?

Tell me Tom how is grilling a hotdog or hanging a piece of cloth on a pole honoring all those individual soldiers that are still suffering and forgotten?

I volunteered my time to a veterans organization set up by my friend Danny to help these individual soldiers with their medical and legal problems. At every turn the government threw up obstacles and excuses. I did my best to make tbeir plight known and I still talk to some of those that are left and still suffering.

I wonder what Salty did to honor these individual soldiers besides watching propaganda films and wearing his uniform.

No Tom I don't hate the individual soldier. But I'm not about to pretend flying some piece of cloth is honoring them. Seems to me the only honorable way to honor these individual soldeirs is to honor our oath and defend the constitution like we swore to do instead accepting every form of tyranny against it. The honorable thing to do is put an end to Washi gton's unconstitutional interventionist policy. Anything else is an insult to those we pretend to be honoring.

Two days a year we put on patriotic faces ond pretend we care about our fallen "warfighters". What a crock. If we really cared we'd put an end to all needless illegal wars instead of making up excuses to keep them going and going and going.

 

[Salty]

Some info on those 22 suicides every day

and why are WW II vets committing suicide?


Its easy to a take a "fact" and make it say what you want it to.

All I asking is that you read ALL the info


and don't believe that garbage that I sat "watching propaganda films" on the Fourth?
Why do people try to twist my words?

I do have a couple of questions
1) Why did 44 GI's become citizens when stationed in Afghanistan?
2)Why is the recruiting and re-up rate remaining high in the DOD?


It is a shame some 20 vets are taking their life every day - but is it solely because of being in a combat zone?

 

[Salty]

Some accuse the US Govt of turning it's back on some 200,000 injured "warfighters" who are casualties of a needless war.

This article states that over 600,000 men are rated as service connected - and drawing (non-taxable) disability pay.
Granted, some are still waiting on a fair evaluation - but progress is being made.

 

[Tom Bryant]

My friend Danny was an individual soldier. He went to Iraq and helped overthrow the evil dictator that our own government helped put in power. He came back as did 200,000 other individual soldiers with unexplainable health problems. What was their reward? A few medals from a government that refused to even to admit they had a war related injury. And a nation that turned it's back on and to this day will not admit that those 200,000 injured "warfighters" are casualties of a needless war.

I honor them by remembering their sacrifice.

And what about the 22 Iraq war vets that take their own lives every single day because they are sick and can't live with what their government ordered them to do?

Tell me Tom how is grilling a hotdog or hanging a piece of cloth on a pole honoring all those individual soldiers that are still suffering and forgotten?

I volunteered my time to a veterans organization set up by my friend Danny to help these individual soldiers with their medical and legal problems. At every turn the government threw up obstacles and excuses. I did my best to make tbeir plight known and I still talk to some of those that are left and still suffering.

I wonder what Salty did to honor these individual soldiers besides watching propaganda films and wearing his uniform.

No Tom I don't hate the individual soldier. But I'm not about to pretend flying some piece of cloth is honoring them. Seems to me the only honorable way to honor these individual soldeirs is to honor our oath and defend the constitution like we swore to do instead accepting every form of tyranny against it. The honorable thing to do is put an end to Washi gton's unconstitutional interventionist policy. Anything else is an insult to those we pretend to be honoring.

Two days a year we put on patriotic faces ond pretend we care about our fallen "warfighters". What a crock. If we really cared we'd put an end to all needless illegal wars instead of making up excuses to keep them going and going and going.

Poncho this thread was never about cooking hot dogs or any piece of cloth. It was about turning your back on the flag. And i don't put on a patriotic face 2 days a year. I wear it proudly every day of the year.

Just as a practical matter, you do our mutual position about what this gov't is doing no good whatsoever by calling what I am doing a crock.

I met guys who after they were released from the POW camps in North Viet nam and rpoudly showed the flag they made and if their guards would have caught them, they would have been hung up by their arms backwards as punishment. That flag means something. It's not just a strip of cloth.

 

[poncho]

The flag is a symbol of the past Tom. Sure we can look back and remember our liberties and those who fought for them but we don't have liberty anymore. The flag we are under is the corporate flag it might as well have Goldman Sachs and British Petroleum's logos on it.

Freedom isn't having the government stick it's hands down our pants. Freedom isn't the police locking down cities and ordering people out of their homes at gunpoint. If you want to fly a symbol of the past fine so long as you umderstand it's a symbol of something that no longer exists.

Salty, quit yer whinning. I haven't done anything to you that you haven't tried to do to me.

 

[poncho]

Is no one going to explain to me how we're honoring all the brave souls who suffered and died to win and safegaurd our liberties by accepting every form of tyranny they suffered and died to free us from?

How about it Salty? How come you haven't tried to answer it? You seem to have the answer for everything else.

 

[Salty]

Tom, was I whining about something you said?

 

[poncho]

Are you going to answer my question or keep trying to avoid it?

 

[poncho]

Some accuse the US Govt of turning it's back on some 200,000 injured "warfighters" who are casualties of a needless war.

This article states that over 600,000 men are rated as service connected - and drawing (non-taxable) disability pay.
Granted, some are still waiting on a fair evaluation - but progress is being made.

CNN the masters of fake news reports? :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjBIri8g5Fw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98JDKB-Qmxs

Yes progress is being made I just hope the answer is found before all the sick Iraq war vets have died from their illness or killed themselves.

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/mission.htm

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question. Here I'll repeat it again in case you missed it. I'll even make it bigger in case you couldn't see it before.

How are we honoring all those brave souls who suffered and died to win our independence and safeguard our liberties by accepting every form of tyranny they suffered and died to free us from?

 

[poncho]

Some info on those 22 suicides every day

"There were 349 suicides among active duty personnel – almost one a day. That means there are now more suicides among active duty soldiers than there are combat deaths."

and why are WW II vets committing suicide?

"Instead of counseling, Patrick Arbore, the founding director of the Center for Elderly Suicide Prevention and Grief Counseling, said most World War II veterans self-medicated with alcohol.“This was the only way they could contain the trauma,” Arbore said. “They never, never, never talked about it, but they would go to the American Legion religiously and get drunk.”

Could be they sobered up and couldn't handle holding it all in anymore.

Its easy to a take a "fact" and make it say what you want it to.

Finally you admitted it. Facts can't be trusted! Propaganda on the other hand can never be disputed though right? And the more there is of it the more credible it becomes. The "big lie theory" in action.

All I asking is that you read ALL the info

Okay so I read it.

and don't believe that garbage that I sat "watching propaganda films" on the Fourth?

Well, you posted some propaganda films and said you might even wear your uniform. What were we supposed to believe you were doing on the 4th?

Why do people try to twist my words?

Why do you try to twist other's words?

I do have a couple of questions
1) Why did 44 GI's become citizens when stationed in Afghanistan?
2)Why is the recruiting and re-up rate remaining high in the DOD?

Um, because there are only low wage service jobs left after all the manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas? Or maybe the pay is so low the big re enlistment bonuses are the only way they can afford to live? Or maybe it's because the kids today think war is cool because they've been raised on Ritalin and violent video games that glorify it? Or maybe it's because their heads are so full of red white and blue propaganda and lies by the time they are 18 that they actually think they're going to be "fighting to protect our freedom" instead of expanding and protecting the global corporate elite's empire? Maybe it's because the troops are all drugged up? Maybe it's because the military is recruiting illegal immigrants with the promise of citizenship? Maybe some just like killing people and blowing things up. My good buddy's kid joined the marines for just that reason. He and I spent a lot of hours at the shooting range together and that's all he talked about. Thought it was the coolest thing in the world that he could kill people legally. (He doesn't think it's so cool now)

Maybe it's all of the above.

It is a shame some 20 vets are taking their life every day - but is it solely because of being in a combat zone?

That's 22 vets plus 1 active duty serviceman a day. Maybe it's got something to with them figuring out that the reasons given to them by the politicians and media about the need to wage war on other countries were big fat lies. Or maybe it's got something to do with them being fed drugs with side effects known to cause violent and suicidal tendencies to keep them "combat effective"?

For more info see . . . Addiction and SSRI Medications

Okay I did what you asked now do what asked . . . answer my question.

How are we honoring all those brave souls who suffered and died to win our independence and safeguard our liberties by accepting every form of tyranny they suffered and died to free us from?

 

[go2church]

Not so sure all are accepting like you say. The courts are full of challenges, the recent Hobby Lobby decision as an example.

 

[preacher4truth]

Nope. I'm not turning my back like a coward.

 

[poncho]

That's all fine and good but it still doesn't answer my question.

How are we honoring all those brave souls who suffered and died to win our independence and safeguard our liberties by accepting every form of tyranny they suffered and died to free us from?

Where ya hidin Salty? I answered your questions.

Speaking of acting cowardly. It's strange how all the BB "patriots" disappear just because I ask a simple question. Don't you think that's being "cowardly" preacher4truth? I noticed you didn't try to answer my question either.

 

[Dennis324]

Poncho this thread was never about cooking hot dogs or any piece of cloth. It was about turning your back on the flag. And i don't put on a patriotic face 2 days a year. I wear it proudly every day of the year.

Just as a practical matter, you do our mutual position about what this gov't is doing no good whatsoever by calling what I am doing a crock.

I met guys who after they were released from the POW camps in North Viet nam and rpoudly showed the flag they made and if their guards would have caught them, they would have been hung up by their arms backwards as punishment. That flag means something. It's not just a strip of cloth.

One problem is that some people think that our flag is just a piece of cloth. That's pure ignorance brought on by Political-Correctness. Anyone who thinks Old Glory is just a scrap of cloth needs to watch this short 3 minute video:

http://youtu.be/a6vwXbQZvJo

 

[InTheLight]

Poncho, we've tangled before but your post really struck a nerve. We are seeing our Constitutional rights diluted and taken away yet we blithely celebrate the Fourth as if it was 1920, or thereabouts. The fact is, people that celebrate the Fourth nowadays are doing so as an exercise in nostalgia. Thanks for giving me a jolt to my comfort zone.

 

[saturneptune]

Poncho, we've tangled before but your post really struck a nerve. We are seeing our Constitutional rights diluted and taken away yet we blithely celebrate the Fourth as if it was 1920, or thereabouts. The fact is, people that celebrate the Fourth nowadays are doing so as an exercise in nostalgia. Thanks for giving me a jolt to my comfort zone.

The only way this is going to be solved is to rid ourselves of the politicians of both parties who steal from the American people daily, build their political power for the next election, and are basically nothing but self indulgent slobs. They have no interest in the Constitution or serving the American people. This goes for Congress, its staff, the Executive Branch, and its departments. This will also require ridding our Government of lobbyists, corporate influence, union influence, the military industrial complex, and the financial institutions.

It seems most have forgotten, power flows from the people to the government, not the opposite way.

 

[Dennis324]

We need less lobbyists, corporate influence, union influence...and more good Christian Conservatives to hold office. :type:

 

[Salty]

The only way this is going to be solved is to rid ourselves of the politicians of both parties who steal from the American people daily, build their political power for the next election, ...

and therein is the problem. Why would the 50% who are supported by the government want to vote in conservatives who would stop their nice little monthly nest egg. - aka welfare.

Yet, those seniors who have worked their whole life and forced to contribute to SS - may see their checks decrease?

 

[poncho]

Poncho, we've tangled before but your post really struck a nerve. We are seeing our Constitutional rights diluted and taken away yet we blithely celebrate the Fourth as if it was 1920, or thereabouts. The fact is, people that celebrate the Fourth nowadays are doing so as an exercise in nostalgia. Thanks for giving me a jolt to my comfort zone.

Well it's about time! And you're welcome. Now if we could just get everyone out of the false left vs right paradigm we might be able to come up with some solutions to get our freedoms back.

Our country is the constitution and bill of rights. It's the principles of our founding. It's not the government or a political party or even a flag. If we lose the constitution and bill of rights. We have no country. We have a prison.

The day is coming when Obama sypporters are going to realize what he has done. Right now his Affordable socialism is falling apart and he wants to delay it until after the elections next year. When his supporters start losing their jobs and can no longer afford health care their eyes will be opened. At least that's my hope. But for that happen the democrats have to be deated in 2014.

Yeah I know sounds strange coming from me.

 

[Don]

....The day is coming when Obama sypporters are going to realize what he has done. Right now his Affordable socialism is falling apart and he wants to delay it until after the elections next year. When his supporters start losing their jobs and can no longer afford health care their eyes will be opened. At least that's my hope. But for that happen the democrats have to be deated in 2014.

Yeah I know sounds strange coming from me.

Sorry, but I gotta go with Salty on this one. When a majority of the voters are enjoying hand-outs, why would they vote to change the system?