TV Star Turned Baptist Minister

[Michael Wrenn]

If Jesus accepts women on an equal basis for any kind of service in the church including the role of pastor, why were the apostles all men? Why were the 72 that He sent out all men? Why were those specifically chosen by Him all men?

Why did He first appear to women after the Resurrection? Why were women in His inner circle, against all cultural norms of the day? Why did He commission women to be the first to teach men the fact of the Resurrection?

Paul refers to Junia, a woman, as an apostle.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I have interpreted it in context of the whole of Scripture, something your hermeneutic wants to disregard.

No, you have done the opposite, as the article clearly demonstrates.

 

[Arbo]

This one is different. We're talking about an intentional, misguided attempt to silence 50% of the Church because of a couple of tiny portions of Scripture that Paul gave to a specific 1st-century context. And these misguided beliefs have spawned countless numbers of abuse, physical and emotional. It's time to give it up.

Who is it that is intentionally doing the misguiding? Paul?

 

[annsni]

Why did He first appear to women after the Resurrection? Why were women in His inner circle, against all cultural norms of the day? Why did He commission women to be the first to teach men the fact of the Resurrection?

Does appearing to women mean that they are pastors?????? I don't quite catch the connection. I also don't think that going and saying "Jesus is alive" is really "teaching", do you??

Paul refers to Junia, a woman, as an apostle.

I didn't know that an apostle was a pastor. But I also see that Junia was of note among the apostles, not that she was one.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Does appearing to women mean that they are pastors?????? I don't quite catch the connection. I also don't think that going and saying "Jesus is alive" is really "teaching", do you??


Yes.

I didn't know that an apostle was a pastor. But I also see that Junia was of note among the apostles, not that she was one.

I'm sorry if I offended you earlier.

I have to take a break now.

 

[DaChaser1]

Does appearing to women mean that they are pastors?????? I don't quite catch the connection. I also don't think that going and saying "Jesus is alive" is really "teaching", do you??

ALL of us sent to proclaim jesus and to live for Him!

NO women were made Apostles, nor were there any ever listed in Bible as either a pastor or Elder!

I didn't know that an apostle was a pastor. But I also see that Junia was of note among the apostles, not that she was one.

Yes!

bible stated there were women prophets in NT times, a deaconess, were among those following jesus, NONE as a Pastor/elder though!

think that all current 'Evangelical" scholarship is attempting to do is to rewrite the biblical to make it accomodate cultural norms held today. as have noticed that both women being ordained and alternate lifestyles seem to be creeping in through those using the "new" way to interprete the biblical norms!

 

[annsni]

I'm sorry if I offended you earlier.

I have to take a break now.

Thank you for your apology - it is accepted.

But I disagree that giving a statement of a fact is teaching. Jesus had already taught about His resurrection - the women just told them that it had occurred.

 

[jaigner]

...and? Are we to blindly follow others or follow what God's word says?

Following the work of such noted scholars as N.T. Wright and a whole host of others is not exactly blind following. We are to follow the Bible, and to better do so, we greatly benefit from the good work other scholars have done.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Women not in leadership? Not according to the scriptures...

Female Prophets, Disciples, Ministers & Apostles Mentioned in the Bible

There were many women who exhibited leadership in both the Old and New Testaments:

Exodus 15:20: Miriam, the sister of Aaron was a prophetess and one of the triad of leaders of Israel during the Exodus from Egypt.

Judges 4 & 5: Deborah, a prophet-judge, headed the army of ancient Israel.

2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chronicles 34:22 Huldah, a prophet, verified the authenticity of the "Book of the Law of the Lord given through Moses." She triggered a religious renewal.

Acts 9:36 The author of Luke referred to a female disciple by her Aramaic name Tabitha, who was also known by her Greek name Dorcas. She became sick had died; Peter brought her back to life.

Acts 21:8: Philip the evangelist had four unmarried daughters who were prophets.

Philippians 4:2: Paul refers to two women, Euodia and Syntyche, as coworkers who were active evangelicals, spreading the gospel.
Romans 16:1: Paul refers to Phoebe as a minister (diakonos) of the church at Cenchrea. Some translations say deaconess; others try to obscure her position by mistranslating it as "servant" or "helper".

Romans 16:3: Paul refers to Priscilla as another of his "fellow workers in Christ Jesus" (NIV) Other translations refer to her as a "co-worker". But other translations attempt to downgrade her status by calling her a "helper". The original Greek word is "synergoi", which literally means "fellow worker" or "colleague." (7)

Romans 16:7: Paul refers to a male apostle, Andronicus, and a female apostle, Junia, as "outstanding among the apostles" (NIV) The Amplified Bible translates this passage as "They are men held in high esteem among the apostles" The Revised Standard Version shows it as "they are men of note among the apostles". The reference to them both being men does not appear in the original Greek text. The word "men" was simply inserted by the translators, apparently because the translators' minds recoiled from the concept of a female apostle. Many translations, including the Amplified Bible, Rheims New Testament, New American Standard Bible, and the New International Version simply picked the letter "s" out of thin air, and converted the original "Junia" (a woman) into "Junias" (a man).

http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/women.htm

 

[webdog]

Following the work of such noted scholars as N.T. Wright and a whole host of others is not exactly blind following. We are to follow the Bible, and to better do so, we greatly benefit from the good work other scholars have done.

I can't think of a better scholar than Paul...and he disagreed with N.T Wright on this.

 

[mandym]

http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/women.htm

Not really a scholarly source

 

[webdog]

Female Prophets, Disciples, Ministers & Apostles Mentioned in the Bible

There were many women who exhibited leadership in both the Old and New Testaments:

Exodus 15:20: Miriam, the sister of Aaron was a prophetess and one of the triad of leaders of Israel during the Exodus from Egypt.

Judges 4 & 5: Deborah, a prophet-judge, headed the army of ancient Israel.

2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chronicles 34:22 Huldah, a prophet, verified the authenticity of the "Book of the Law of the Lord given through Moses." She triggered a religious renewal.

None of which support female pastors.

Acts 9:36 The author of Luke referred to a female disciple by her Aramaic name Tabitha, who was also known by her Greek name Dorcas. She became sick had died; Peter brought her back to life.

How is this relevant?

Acts 21:8: Philip the evangelist had four unmarried daughters who were prophets.

Irrelevant.

Philippians 4:2: Paul refers to two women, Euodia and Syntyche, as coworkers who were active evangelicals, spreading the gospel.

So is my wife, and she is not the leader in my home or in my church.

Romans 16:1: Paul refers to Phoebe as a minister (diakonos) of the church at Cenchrea. Some translations say deaconess; others try to obscure her position by mistranslating it as "servant" or "helper".

No obscuring taking place, just defining the word based on the context. One can minister as a servant, no mistranslating taking place.

Romans 16:3: Paul refers to Priscilla as another of his "fellow workers in Christ Jesus" (NIV) Other translations refer to her as a "co-worker". But other translations attempt to downgrade her status by calling her a "helper". The original Greek word is "synergoi", which literally means "fellow worker" or "colleague." (7)

Non sequitur. Being a servant not in leadership in no way is a "downgrade in status".

Romans 16:7: Paul refers to a male apostle, Andronicus, and a female apostle, Junia, as "outstanding among the apostles" (NIV) The Amplified Bible translates this passage as "They are men held in high esteem among the apostles" The Revised Standard Version shows it as "they are men of note among the apostles". The reference to them both being men does not appear in the original Greek text. The word "men" was simply inserted by the translators, apparently because the translators' minds recoiled from the concept of a female apostle. Many translations, including the Amplified Bible, Rheims New Testament, New American Standard Bible, and the New International Version simply picked the letter "s" out of thin air, and converted the original "Junia" (a woman) into "Junias" (a man).

You beg the question by assuming Junias / Junia is a woman. At any rate an apostle is not a pastor, as Paul is proof of this.

 

[jaigner]

I can't think of a better scholar than Paul...and he disagreed with N.T Wright on this.

Nope. I think both Paul and N.T. Wright would agree that Paul told a church in a very specific 1st-century context that women shouldn't be teaching in that place. I think they would both agree that it is permissible in our contemporary situation.

 

[jaigner]

You beg the question by assuming Junias / Junia is a woman. At any rate an apostle is not a pastor, as Paul is proof of this.

Junia was absolutely a woman. That name was common, but there is no record of a "Junias."

 

[webdog]

Junia was absolutely a woman. That name was common, but there is no record of a "Junias."

Like I said, still irrelevant as an apostle is not a pastor.

 

[webdog]

Nope. I think both Paul and N.T. Wright would agree that Paul told a church in a very specific 1st-century context that women shouldn't be teaching in that place. I think they would both agree that it is permissible in our contemporary situation.

Hardly. Given Paul's comparison of being able to manage one's household well (v.12) and the separate command to the women (v. 11) coupled with Paul's words to the Corinthians regarding roles of women and men and his letter to the Ephesians (chapter 5) regarding man's leadership role in the home is clear that his view is contradictory to Wright's and has nothing to do with the limited scope you are assigning it.

 

[mandym]

Hardly. Given Paul's comparison of being able to manage one's household well (v.12) and the separate command to the women (v. 11) coupled with Paul's words to the Corinthians regarding roles of women and men and his letter to the Ephesians (chapter 5) regarding man's leadership role in the home is clear that his view is contradictory to Wright's and has nothing to do with the limited scope you are assigning it.

Of course to hold to the women pastors view all this must be ignored.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Well.

In response to scriptural evidence, we find...

divert, ignore, change the topic.

divert, ignore, change the topic

divert, ignore, change the topic.


As for me, I am going to stick with the scriptual evidence

Keeping women "in their place" is nothing short of a crying shame.

 

[webdog]

Well.

In response to scriptural evidence, we find...

divert, ignore, change the topic.

divert, ignore, change the topic

divert, ignore, change the topic.


As for me, I am going to stick with the scriptual evidence

Keeping women "in their place" is nothing short of a crying shame.

Or...answer your "scriptural evidence" (proof texts) one by one, then be accused of "divert, ignore, change the topic" while ignoring the counter Scripture given. Seriously, people reading his site have eyes and can see what a false accusation this is

 

[jaigner]

Or...answer your "scriptural evidence" (proof texts) one by one, then be accused of "divert, ignore, change the topic" while ignoring the counter Scripture given. Seriously, people reading his site have eyes and can see what a false accusation this is

You're doing the same thing.