Two Elections, First Corporate, Then Individual

[Van]

Then you must be in disagreement with Romans:

Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
​

Perhaps you might contend that there are people who are not carbon based life forms?

More non-germane nonsense. Here is what I wrote: God has the right to make vessels for honor or common use, but that in no way teaches God does not allow us to make our choice for life or death.

Did Agedman address the biblical truth, or act as if it had not been posted?

 

[Van]

It should be plain to all by now, Calvinism conflicts with biblical truth after biblical truth. None of the efforts to hide this truth is even rational, let alone biblical. See post #52 for a presentation of the truth being hidden by all these silly posts...

 

[agedman]

What a load of nonsense. Agedman pretends he is incapable of comprehending that if you were chosen individually before you were created, then you were always a chosen people, and never "not a people" chosen by God.

So we get an avalanche of non-germane nonsense.

Are we to assume you really don’t know what you are posting about?

Were Gentiles part of the Spiritual Israel (Romans 11) prior to their grafting? No

Perhaps you are like some in that you view the redeemed Gentile as separate and distinct from Israel of Romans 11?

Patiently presenting Scripture principle to someone who is obstinately desirous to remain entrenched in their own ditch of misguidance resulted in the pronunciation of “load of nonsense.”

I know my intellect is slipping, I no longer can bring to mind what was once so easy, and I suppose that someone of your acute intellectualism would look disparagingly upon my posts, however you are in error.

 

[agedman]

More non-germane nonsense. Here is what I wrote: God has the right to make vessels for honor or common use, but that in no way teaches God does not allow us to make our choice for life or death.

Did Agedman address the biblical truth, or act as if it had not been posted?

Do you now deny that the Lord ALONE holds the keys of Life and Death?

No one is born of their own initiative and no one dies except at the appointed time.

Christ alone had the power to both give up His life and take it up again. No one else had or has such authority.

Vessels of honor is in contrast to those of dishonor. The honor is as opposed to the common.

In what manner is any adopted son of the creator merely “common?”

At best every human can only chose from that which is offered of the world system, what is “common.”

The redeemed have the “uncommon” spectrum of choices including that of Devine offerings and endowments.

Of the same clay God makes those that will remain choosing only the common and many are called, however, few are chosen.

The sound of pipes are heard, but few respond. Why?

Because such were formed to respond, specifically chosen before the creation was established.

No corporate election is found in Scripture.

Corporate election is merely a human scheme deployed to bring discredit to the Devine attributes of God.

 

[Silverhair]

Do you now deny that the Lord ALONE holds the keys of Life and Death?

No one is born of their own initiative and no one dies except at the appointed time.

Christ alone had the power to both give up His life and take it up again. No one else had or has such authority.

Vessels of honor is in contrast to those of dishonor. The honor is as opposed to the common.

In what manner is any adopted son of the creator merely “common?”

At best every human can only chose from that which is offered of the world system, what is “common.”

The redeemed have the “uncommon” spectrum of choices including that of Devine offerings and endowments.

Of the same clay God makes those that will remain choosing only the common and many are called, however, few are chosen.

The sound of pipes are heard, but few respond. Why?

Because such were formed to respond, specifically chosen before the creation was established.

No corporate election is found in Scripture.

Corporate election is merely a human scheme deployed to bring discredit to the Devine attributes of God.

After reading some of your posts I would inclined to say that you are the one who brings discredit to the divine attributes of God. Your theology requires that God only select a small group to be saved yet the bible says all can be saved through faith. Your theology requires that all that are called come because of irresistible grace but then say that those that are not draw by this grace are condemned by their own choice. Your theology says God decrees all things but then say He does not decree sin. Your theology is made of hole cloth.

 

[Van]

Are we to assume you really don’t know what you are posting about?

Were Gentiles part of the Spiritual Israel (Romans 11) prior to their grafting? No

Perhaps you are like some in that you view the redeemed Gentile as separate and distinct from Israel of Romans 11?

Patiently presenting Scripture principle to someone who is obstinately desirous to remain entrenched in their own ditch of misguidance resulted in the pronunciation of “load of nonsense.”

I know my intellect is slipping, I no longer can bring to mind what was once so easy, and I suppose that someone of your acute intellectualism would look disparagingly upon my posts, however you are in error.

On and on folks, nonsense followed by falsehood. He changes the subject, but runs from the fact Ephesians 1:4 refers to a corporate election. He wants people chosen before creation to be somehow considered as not chosen. Hogwash

 

[Van]

Do you now deny...

As I said, Calvinists can be counted on to misrepresent the views of others to hide their false doctrine. Ephesians 1:4 refers to our corporate Election and 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to our Conditional Individual Election, during our lifetime ending our "not a people" existence.

 

[agedman]

After reading some of your posts I would inclined to say that you are the one who brings discredit to the divine attributes of God. Your theology requires that God only select a small group to be saved yet the bible says all can be saved through faith. Your theology requires that all that are called come because of irresistible grace but then say that those that are not draw by this grace are condemned by their own choice. Your theology says God decrees all things but then say He does not decree sin. Your theology is made of hole cloth.

Did you not read the Lord saying “few are chosen?”

You refer to “my theology” as if it faulty.

I suggest you start a thread on your theology and see how it goes. We may or may not be in disagreement.

However, when it comes to THIS thread, corporate election is a failure which most certainly diminishes the unsearchable depth of the Divine attributes.

For examples:
Can God not know?
Is God subject to human time?

Corporate election presents God as unknowing, and bound to human time.

 

[Marooncat79]

On and on folks, nonsense followed by falsehood. He changes the subject, but runs from the fact Ephesians 1:4 refers to a corporate election. He wants people chosen before creation to be somehow considered as not chosen. Hogwash

Van

you are obviously referencing yourself here

again, allow the Word of God to be the Word of God

 

[agedman]

On and on folks, nonsense followed by falsehood. He changes the subject, but runs from the fact Ephesians 1:4 refers to a corporate election. He wants people chosen before creation to be somehow considered as not chosen. Hogwash

As I said, Calvinists can be counted on to misrepresent the views of others to hide their false doctrine. Ephesians 1:4 refers to our corporate Election and 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to our Conditional Individual Election, during our lifetime ending our "not a people" existence.

Your refusing to acknowledge the truth of what I and others have posted, which soundly refuted your view concerning this thread, does not oblige the readers to adopt your view(s).

At no place does the Scripture teach corporate election, nor does the Scriptures teach “conditional individual election.”

you not only have the error of diminishing the Divine attributes, but your referencing 2 Thessalonians shows that you violate:

Therefore, brothers and sisters, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choice of you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;​

Paul states:

For all things belong to you, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things to come; all things belong to you, 23and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God.
​

There is no Scripture that even hints at “conditional individual election.”

 

[Revmitchell]

Corporate election presents God as unknowing, and bound to human time.

corporate election has in no way shown that nor does it have anything to do with that.

 

[Revmitchell]

Your refusing to acknowledge the truth of what I and others have posted, which soundly refuted your view concerning this thread, does not oblige the readers to adopt your view(s).

At no place does the Scripture teach corporate election, nor does the Scriptures teach “conditional individual election.”

you not only have the error of diminishing the Divine attributes, but your referencing 2 Thessalonians shows that you violate:

Therefore, brothers and sisters, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choice of you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;​

Paul states:

For all things belong to you, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things to come; all things belong to you, 23and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God.
​

There is no Scripture that even hints at “conditional individual election.”

just because someone is spoken of as being included in corporate election, such as the verse you quoted, doesn’t prove your errant view of individual election.

 

[Marooncat79]

No one ever obfuscates any other doctrine like they do the Doctrine of Election

without individual election, man is eternally lost

 

[agedman]

just because someone is spoken of as being included in corporate election, such as the verse you quoted, doesn’t prove your errant view of individual election.

corporate election has in no way shown that nor does it have anything to do with that.

Scripture proof, Mitchell.

Show that the Divine attributes are not diminished by one using corporate election as done in this thread, and (though you haven’t engaged in this thread yet do, by previous thread discussions, preach corporate election) bring your own proof of how your teaching does not diminish the Divine attributes mentioned.

 

[Revmitchell]

Scripture proof, Mitchell.

Show that the Divine attributes are not diminished by one using corporate election as done in this thread, and (though you haven’t engaged in this thread yet do, by previous thread discussions, preach corporate election) bring your own proof of how your teaching does not diminish the Divine attributes mentioned.

I see you didn’t actually deal with my post.

 

[MB]

Mis information, again!

9But you are A CHOSEN PEOPLE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLEFOR GOD’S OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
​

This does NOT even suggest corporate election, rather points to the fact that Gentiles are placed into the same tree as the chosen Jews as Romans teaches. The verses have no indication concerning corporate election!

That “ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT…” does not mean that “FEW ARE CHOSEN…” from the before time!


Your own bias is presenting a limit to the Devine attributes of God.

Your wrong this is Peter who is an apostle to the Jews. Gentiles are not one nation and least of all not a Holy nation. God's possession are the Jews and it is a corporate election. No where does it say this is individual election of Gentiles.
MB

 

[MB]

Please do not post your utter nonsense on yet another thread dealing with election. Your view is entirely unbiblical. Why do you try to derail every thread, yet ignore the overwhelming evidence of your error.

First Thessalonians 1:4 tells us of the Thessalonians being elect, and Acts 17:4 tells us that many were Greeks. If you open to truth the case would be closed once and for all. But no...

Like the Calvinist all you can do offer insults. You do not own this board so stop acting like you do. I'm a member here and can respond to any thread as long as I obey the rules. In fact most of what you post is utter nonsense and is not provable from scripture. There has only been one election and that was of the Jew.
MB

 

[Marooncat79]

So here what a I understand we have

election is only of Jews. MB

election is only by foreknowledge. Some people

election is corporate not individual Van

election is a sovereign choice of God for individuals for salvation. The Biblical view of Calvinistas

a complete denial of election most free willers

what one am I missing here?

take your pick.

obviously they are all true at the same time right?

 

[Van]

Van
you are obviously referencing yourself here
again, allow the Word of God to be the Word of God

LOL, Marooncat79, address the topic or at least stop with the off topic disparagement.

 

[Van]

Your refusing to acknowledge the truth SNIP.”

More subject change, more obfuscation, more personal attacks. This is all the false teachers have in light of obvious truth.
Ephesians 1:4 refers to our corporate election before creation when God chose His Redeemer, He corporately chose all those His Redeemer would redeem. So simple a child can understand it!!!