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Two Elections, First Corporate, Then Individual

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Silverhair

Silverhair

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AustinC said:
In this belief, God becomes of little importance as the most important thing in salvation becomes the will of man.

Romans 5 and 8 makes your assertion void.

Romans 5:1-2,6-11

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained accessby faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to Godby the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Romans 8:29-30

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

In "Freedom of the Will" Jonathan Edwards dismantles your assertion. It would be good if you read it. I point you to a short excerpt in the link below as an opportunity for you to see why you are wrong in your assertion.

Jonathan Edwards on Free Will | Christian History Institute
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Austin your quotes say more than you intended:
Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son,

Yes I agree we are saved by faith and we will be conformed to the image of Christ Jesus. Thanks for confirming that.
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
Austin your quotes say more than you intended:
Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son,

Yes I agree we are saved by faith and we will be conformed to the image of Christ Jesus. Thanks for confirming that.
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I do not think you know what that verse means?

but I bet I know what you’re going to say
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Van said:
Yet another mindless post by those who disparage and have little to say concerning the fact Ephesians 1:4 is precluded of being a reference to our individual election, and therefore refers to our corporate election. That folks is the topic being ignored by these disparagement only posters.
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I can promise you, that your understanding of that verse totally undermines any known hermeneutic that’s considered legitimate
 
agedman

agedman

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Revmitchell said:
when God sets the conditions then it is totally of God.

the verse you quoted is out of context
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I agre, salvation is totally God and not synergistic of some conditional upon human.
And that disproves the application, how?
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
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Marooncat79 said:
I can promise you, that your understanding of that verse totally undermines any known hermeneutic that’s considered legitimate
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Nice use of big words to say "taint so."
However since 1 Peter 2:9-10 (NASB95) says:
You are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Thus we were not chosen individually before we existed as "not a people" and "had not received mercy." Therefore during our lifetime, after existing as not a people and not having received mercy, we were individually chosen. No known hermeneutic that is considered legitimate denies this truth.
 
agedman

agedman

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Silverhair said:
Not sure if I should listen to you or God? After some serious thought I will go with God.

What does God say
Mat_6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you
Luk 11:9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Luk 11:10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Act 17:27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Now you will not like it but if God says we can do it then that settles it, well that is unless it is the god you seem to follow. He just says things but they really do not mean what they seem to mean. My question for you is how can you trust anything that your god says?

Of course I trust in Gods' Prevenient Grace, don't you? Your the one that holds to irresistible grace are you not?

You just go on trusting in your man make religion and I will just trust in God.
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Prevenient Grace was a human construction attempting to support both conditional election and corporate election.

Of course, if you want to contented that God suspends or in some manner lifts the intellectual/spiritual capacity of the human to the point a person can make some eternal choice, and therefore, the author is not God but salvation is of the choice of man, then you are certainly right to do so. But then John 1 doesn’t support you.

However, to look for some Biblical support will be as fatal as the floundering Wesley to came up with the scheme.
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Van said:
Nice use of big words to say "taint so."
However since 1 Peter 2:9-10 (NASB95) says:
You are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Thus we were not chosen individually before we existed as "not a people" and "had not received mercy." Therefore during our lifetime, after existing as not a people and not having received mercy, we were individually chosen. No known hermeneutic that is considered legitimate denies this truth.
Click to expand...


Hey MB-

don’t you have a response for this?

@MB
 
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