Two Epidemiologists Debate Our Response to SARS-CoV-2

[Aaron]

I think we're beginning to see firsthand evidence of the racial prejudice being directed toward Asians by certain individuals in the United States, who tend to think in terms of that so-called "Chinese virus."

So you love China, eh? Well, here. Have one of their diseases on the house.

Cut the crap. It started in China. China lied about it (and still is lying) and knowingly and willingly allowed it out and into other nations.

We don't need to shut down the world economy for this. China needs to face reprisals so severe that if the Communist regime doesn't go absolutely bankrupt and fall, they will think it suicide to pull another stunt like this.

 

[church mouse guy]

Maybe the Brits have had enough of China, too.

 

[alexander284]

So you love China, eh? Well, here. Have one of their diseases on the house.

Cut the crap. It started in China. China lied about it (and still is lying) and knowingly and willingly allowed it out and into other nations.

We don't need to shut down the world economy for this. China needs to face reprisals so severe that if the Communist regime doesn't go absolutely bankrupt and fall, they will think it suicide to pull another stunt like this.

It's actually love of my fellow man. Perhaps you wouldn't understand. It's a Christian thing! As is hatred of racial prejudice. Perhaps you should look into the teachings of Jesus. And "practice what you preach." Maybe "bear some fruit." "Judge not, that you not be judged." And "love your enemies ... pray for those that persecute you." That sort of thing! And, in the meantime, I'll be praying for you!

 

[Gold Dragon]

The hospitalization rate of Influenza is calculated with the total number of ACTUAL cases. Unless that number is known for COVID-19, you can't know it's hospitalization rate. You're citing a meaningless number.

We know the hospitalization rate for confirmed completed cases (recovered or dead) of COVID-19 so far and it is pretty consistent across countries at somewhere between 15-20%. There is already over 200,000 confirmed cases of data to draw from.

It is actually higher in the US at around 20-30% according to early data from the CDC up to mid March but that is probably skewed by a lack of testing and will probably fall in line with the world data of 15-20% of confirmed cases over the next month or so as testing ramps up in the US.

Severe Outcomes Among Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19

 

[FollowTheWay]

They agreed that extensive testing now would be the best route to understand what we are really dealing with where so that the best decisions can be made regarding the next move. But did they explain why we cannot do such testing, other than to say we don't have kits?

Neither of them addressed the main underlying problem, namely the extreme reliance on foreign manufacturing of medical equipment, supplies, and pharmaceuticals, and that the reliance is mostly on Communist China. Had we the manufacturing infrastructure, we would be far more likely to be able to gear up quickly to meet demand in such a situation, rather than commandeering and converting other industries.

The main underlying problem is that we have a profit-based healthcare system which is designed to make money not to most efficiently treat illness. It wasn't
always entirely that way in the U.S. Blue Cross-Blue Shield started out in the 1930's as a non-profit alternative but was overwhelmed by the for-profit approach.

Blue Cross Blue Shield Association - Wikipedia

Prior to 1986, organizations administering BCBS were tax exempt under 501(c)(4) as social welfare plans. However, the Tax Reform Act of 1986 revoked the exemption, because the plans sold commercial-type insurance. They became 501(m) organizations, subject to federal taxation, but entitled to "special tax benefits"[10] under IRC 833.[11]

In 1994, BCBS changed to allow its licensees to be for-profit corporations.[5] During 2010, Health Care Service Corporation, the parent company of BCBS in Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Montana and Illinois, nearly doubled its income to $1.09 billion in 2010, and began four years of billion-dollar profits.[12]

******************************************************************

One guess as to who took down the non-profit healthcare alternative. Ronald Reagan of course.

 

[church mouse guy]

The main underlying problem is that we have a profit-based healthcare system which is designed to make money not to most efficiently treat illness. It wasn't
always entirely that way in the U.S. Blue Cross-Blue Shield started out in the 1930's as a non-profit alternative but was overwhelmed by the for-profit approach.

There is nothing better than communist medicine. Stalin had a terrific medical system. Nobody loves you like the government. The government is more efficient in everything.

 

[FollowTheWay]

This is the current (4/1/20) Status of Coronavirus in the most-impacted countries.

There is nothing better than communist medicine. Stalin had a terrific medical system. Nobody loves you like the government. The government is more efficient in everything.

So now you're claiming that Blue Cross/Blue Shield was a communist organization?

 

[church mouse guy]

This is the current (4/1/20) Status of Coronavirus in the most-impacted countries.

So now you're claiming that Blue Cross/Blue Shield was a communist organization?

No, communism is better than Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Stalin loved everybody and he had a terrific medical system. Nobody loves you like the government. The government is more efficient in everything.

 

[FollowTheWay]

No, communism is better than Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Stalin loved everybody and he had a terrific medical system. Nobody loves you like the government. The government is more efficient in everything.

WOW! You've become a COMMUNIST. That's a suprise.

 

[church mouse guy]

WOW! You've become a COMMUNIST. That's a suprise.

You convinced me. Communism, what's not to like? There is no profit motive--you never worked for a profit, did you?

 

[church mouse guy]

It's actually love of my fellow man. Perhaps you wouldn't understand. It's a Christian thing! As is hatred of racial prejudice. Perhaps you should look into the teachings of Jesus. And "practice what you preach." Maybe "bear some fruit." "Judge not, that you not be judged." And "love your enemies ... pray for those that persecute you." That sort of thing! And, in the meantime, I'll be praying for you!

I heard someone say something about Chinese food today, just sayin'

 

[Use of Time]

Did we really need to get CMG spun up about his communist obsession right now.

 

[Aaron]

It's actually love of my fellow man. Perhaps you wouldn't understand. It's a Christian thing! As is hatred of racial prejudice. Perhaps you should look into the teachings of Jesus. And "practice what you preach." Maybe "bear some fruit." "Judge not, that you not be judged." And "love your enemies ... pray for those that persecute you." That sort of thing! And, in the meantime, I'll be praying for you!

Aw. Thanks, bruh.

 

[Aaron]

We know the hospitalization rate for confirmed completed cases (recovered or dead) of COVID-19 so far and it is pretty consistent across countries at somewhere between 15-20%. There is already over 200,000 confirmed cases of data to draw from.

It is actually higher in the US at around 20-30% according to early data from the CDC up to mid March but that is probably skewed by a lack of testing and will probably fall in line with the world data of 15-20% of confirmed cases over the next month or so as testing ramps up in the US.

Severe Outcomes Among Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19

Stick to the narrative, comrade.

 

[church mouse guy]

Did we really need to get CMG spun up about his communist obsession right now.

How you doin'? I have been washing my hands more than Pontius Pilate at a string of sham Roman trials. Sure feel sorry for Biden in his befuddled old age. Wonder what nazi collaborator Soros thinks about his party now? You should get rich in the coming depression with your business acumen.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Stick to the narrative, comrade.

I agree that using rigorous scientific data and research collected by what many consider to be the top infectious disease organization in the world in the CDC is a good one to base your narratives on. I will heed your wise advice, brah.

 

[church mouse guy]

I agree that using rigorous scientific data and research collected by what many consider to be the top infectious disease organization in the world in the CDC is a good one to base your narratives on. I will heed your wise advice, brah.

The CDC is vastly overrated. It's just a bunch of low-paid government employees with an axe to grind. Lawyers run everything in this country. The CDC was not prepared for any kind of emergency. They were focused on domestic political goals. No one ever said that the USA has anything other than a pork barrell bureaucracy. The American people survive in spite of their civil servants who are neither civil nor servants.

 

[Gold Dragon]

The CDC is vastly overrated. It's just a bunch of low-paid government employees with an axe to grind. Lawyers run everything in this country. The CDC was not prepared for any kind of emergency. They were focused on domestic political goals. No one ever said that the USA has anything other than a pork barrell bureaucracy. The American people survive in spite of their civil servants who are neither civil nor servants.

So then name me your reliable sources for collecting and reporting on infectious disease data and research in the United States that is better than the CDC.

 

[church mouse guy]

So then name me your reliable sources for collecting and reporting on infectious disease data and research in the United States that is better than the CDC.

I think that the gold standard is Johns Hopkins University. Indiana University Medical School graduates a lot of doctors but they have little presence in medical information. Mayos Clinic in Minnesota is good and has published a good home medical book.

The CDC was ordered to treat racism and islamaphobia and was not prepared for this emergency at all. The FDA wanted to go through rules and regulations. You cannot make any money honestly as a bureaucrat so government is passed over by many. The American State Department has been considered poor for many decades. Bureaucrats tend to work against whoever is President in defiance of the electorate.

 

[Gold Dragon]

I think that the gold standard is Johns Hopkins University. Indiana University Medical School graduates a lot of doctors but they have little presence in medical information. Mayos Clinic in Minnesota is good and has published a good home medical book.

John Hopkins Medicine actually quotes the CDC report that I stated when talking about this question:
Coronavirus and COVID-19: Younger Adults Are at Risk, Too
Coronavirus, Social and Physical Distancing and Self-Quarantine

Mayo Clinic
CIDRAP which is the infectious disease arm of the Univeristy of Minnesota also references another CDC report.
US COVID-19 deaths top China's; data show impact on those with chronic disease
Preliminary Estimates of the Prevalence of Selected Underlying...

1/4 of all those hospitalized had no comorbidities and 1/5 of those in ICU had no comorbitidies.