Featured Two major objections against Non-Calvinists answered

The reason why the unregenerate man cannot submit to God's law is primarily because he is a law-breaker (or covenant breaker). A law-breaker who has offended in even one area of God's law is guilty of breaking the whole law according to Scripture.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Ergo, the unregenerate man cannot keep the law he has already broken. The reason he is a law-breaker is because he is a sinner. The reason this same man cannot believe in Christ is because he lacks the ability to believe while still in his sin.

Yes. I do find it sufficiently explained in Romans 8:7. If you need further evidence from Scripture I point you to 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:1-6; and Colossians 2:13. More obliquely, but supportive of the total inability found in Romans 8:7, is John 6:44 and 2 Corinthians 4:4.

Not without being regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

I believe Romans 8:7 is very clear, and the other verses I cited to support total inability do just that. Eventually it does come down to what you and I are willing to accept. You and Biblicist are going back and forth ad infinitum, ad nauseaum and it seems, at least to me, that very little progress has been made. That is not a bad thing, nor is it unexpected. I believe these discussions become profitable if we take away something that forces us to think.

I am not sure what to make of this vignette of a sermon. I do agree that Arminianism and Semi-Pelagianism do place the credit for salvation with man, not God. Why? Because man must make the decision to accept or reject Christ. It is not God's will that is active and operative, it is man's.

That said, most Arminians and Semi-Pelagians would vehemently reject my understanding of their belief. In that sense they are inconsistent with their stated beliefs. I like to call that a "happy inconsistency" because many of these individuals are dear saints who I will see in glory.

 

"We BEG you on behalf of Christ BE reconciled to God" 2Cor 5.

The Bible model is an APPEAL.

The Calvinist model is "better living through better mind-zap programming and arbitrary selection". One model is in the Bible - the other is not.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Nice try, but there is a little thing called context which you habitually ignore, abuse and pervert. He is addressing the congregation at Corinth not the lost world. They were divided and out of fellowship with each other and with God or haven't you read 1st and 2nd Corinthians? The "YOU" is not the lost world but Christians who need to be reconciled with each other and with God.

The letter was not addressed to or written to the lost world.

 

I am currently in a teaching series on 1 & 2 Corinthians. You are correct, sir. They were written to believers. Believers with issues but believers nonetheless.

 

No you did not in post #92 or any other post I specificed exactly what you did not address and I reposted that specific aspect of my post so that you could not make this excuse. So for the third time now I will repost the precise portion once again:

Second, This carnal mindset of total inaiblity to please God is due to its nature of enmity toward God. Note that Paul says "IS enmity" not that it might "become" or has the "potential for" enmity as your doctrine of the fallen nature demands. The linking verb "is" is a STATE OF BEING verb and thus is describing what it "IS" by nature. The carnal mind IS enmity.

The term "enmity" means a STATE OF WAR. Hence, the fallen nature IS what it is - a state of war against God. This is what it is BY NATURE. That is its condition. That is its STATE OF BEING. That is not its POTENTIAL or what it MAY BECOME due to hardening but that is what it IS. What something IS, is its nature.

Your whole view of fallen man denies what it IS by nature as your view sees only that as its POTENTIAL due to hardening or something it becomes by process.

My view states this IS its nature and that is why it IS always at all times resistant to God's will/law - "and IS not subject to the law of God." Again, this "IS" what it "IS" by nature. By nature it is RESISTANT to God's will at all times because at all times it "IS" at war with God by nature.

This 'IS" what it "IS" from birth to death as man comes into the world with this kind of FALLEN NATURE and will leave this life with this kind of fallen nature.

Your view cannot accept this NATURE of fallen man because by nature the human will is totally IMPOTENT under the mastery of the law of indwelling sin and is FREE from righteousness and totally DEPRAVED as it IS by nature in a state of war and IS by nature resistant to the will of God and therefore is by nature TOTAL INABILITY to please God - "Neither indeed CAN be. So, they who are in the flesh CANNOT please God."

They CANNOT because they WILL NOT and they WILL NOT because that IS the nature of fallen man or the nature of ENMITY = state of war = the nature of resistance - "not subject to the law of God" That IS the nature of fallen man.

 

Of course I remember and that is precisely what I said was presented in the imperative mode. Repent is never presented as an "appeal" but always as a command in the imperative mode. Take a concordance or if you know Greek look at your Greek New Testament or shall I print them out for you??

Believe is not presented as an "appeal" but as a command.

Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent [imperative mode] ye, and believe [imperative mode] the gospel.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe [imperative mode] also in me.

Ac 16:31 And they said, Believe [imperative mode] on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

In other cases the future tense and subjunctive mode do not contradict it is a command.

 

Yes, one has to be blind in one eye and can't see out of the other eye to see the obvious perversion and mishandling of scriptures by some and the deflection and little mind games being played by others.

 

Look at who is being addressed in this text! It is not the lost world. Have you read the content of 1st and 2nd Corinthians???? They are not reconciled with each other or with God. This text is addressing combatant church members not the lost world.

 

Incorrect! The gospel of John was explicitly written to unbelievers that they might believe - John 20:21.

All what? All of 1st and 2nd Corinthians was written exclusively to saved church members. The text you are using is explicity addressed to 'YOU" the divided, bickering church members at Corinth who were needed to be reconciled with each other and obviously with God.

Again, who is the ministry of reconciliation committed to? The world? Or Saved memberss? They cannot perform this ministry to the world if they are in need of being reconciled with each other and out of fellowship with God. The text is addressed exclusively to "YOU" the divided, bickering, out of fellowship saved church members. Have you read the contents of 1st and 2nd Corinthians???? This is the most divided, bickering, and problematic church in the New Testament.

 

Still no detailed explicit response!

 

In Gen 3 God says that He sovereignly chooses to supernaturally place "emnity" between the kingdom of sin and Satan - and humanity.

So though the natural sinful nature of man is at war with God's Law - yet there is a supernatural principle within mankind at war against sin.

in Christ,

Bob

 

NASB - "We BEG you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God" .

The end of 4 and 5 point Calvinism.

in Christ,

Bob

 

In Romans 8:5a Paul is writing about unbelievers, "those who are according to the flesh". Unbelievers "set their minds on the things of the flesh".

In Romans 8:6a Paul reveals that the mind of those set on the flesh is death.

Why do those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh? Why is the mind of these people set on death? Because they are hostile toward God. They are hostile because they do not submit to the law of God. They do not submit to the law of God because they are "not even able to do so" (v. 7).

Skan, I am mildly perplexed. Not more than mildly because I understand that we are not just debating texts, but an entire theological system. It is difficult not to allow our presuppositions to stand between us and a proper rendering of the text.

Let me ask you a question. Based on the context of Romans 8, who is Paul speaking to and what does he mean by their being "not even able to do so"?

For the sake of brevity let me deal with two of the texts I referenced.

In 1 Corinthians 2:14 the author writes about a specific man -- a natural man. He states that this natural man cannot accept ("receive" in some translations) the things of the Spirit of God. In other words he cannot accept spiritual things. He considers such things to be foolishness. These spiritual things are those things "freely given to us by God" (v. 12). These things are taught by the Spirit via internal means (thoughts) and external means (words), c.f. v. 13. The natural man considers these things to be foolishness because he cannot understand them. He cannot understand them because he lacks the spiritual ability to do so (v. 14). He lacks the spiritual ability to do so because he does not have the Spirit.

Back in Romans 8, following on the heels of verse 7, Paul writes in verse 9, "But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him."

Both "those according to the flesh" of Romans 8:5 and the "natural man" of 1 Corinthians 2:14 display inability according to the text. I mean, it is right there as bold as brass!

Demons believe facts. Demons do not believe by faith.

We are agreed that faith does not merit grace. Faith and belief (same Greek root, "pistis") are part of the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8, 9).

Here is one of the differences between us. You believe that man possesses the innate ability to believe while still in his unregenerate state. I believe that man must first be made able to believe before he can actually do so. Why? Because in his natural state, the state of sin, he is unable.

Skan, one thing you have not done is to provide you own exegesis for Romans 8:5-8. In the past I was frustrated by the threads you started that always asked questions but never provided your own exegesis. You would respond by saying that you were just trying to stimulate debate, and that if asked a question you would answer it. Fair enough. So, I am respectfully asking your to provide your own exegesis of Romans 8:5-8. I specifically would like to know how you deal with the "not even able to do so" in verse 7.

Thank you for bringing 2 Corinthians 3 into play. What a wonderful passage of Scripture. I am in a series right now on 1 & 2 Corinthians and this gives me an opportunity to do some advanced exegesis.

Paul is writing about being servants (ministers) of a new covenant. This covenant is not of the letter ("the Law") but of the Spirit. This covenant of the Spirit presents a problem for the unbeliever. I already exegeted 1 Corinthians 2:14 which states that the natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God. If the new covenant is of the Spirit, which it is, then the natural man cannot understand it. Paul has never nullified the condition and consequences of the natural man. If a person is an unbeliever they are not able to understand the things of the Spirit of God; the Gospel included.

In 2 Corinthians 4:4 I agree that the "god this world", Satan, has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not believe. This is God allowing sin to run its ugly course. We see the same type of thing occur in Ephesians 2.

Ephesians 2:1-2 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

Those that are blinded by the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4) are the same as those who walk "according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience". God leaves sinners to their sin and exposed to the wickedness of Satan.

What does this question have to do with the sinner being unable to receive the gift? The giver is not being questioned here.

I have read it more than once and still cannot understand how it applies to what you and I have been discussing. Perhaps it is a lack of understanding on my part.