Two major objections against Non-Calvinists answered

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No you did not in post #92 or any other post I specificed exactly what you did not address and I reposted that specific aspect of my post so that you could not make this excuse. So for the third time now I will repost the precise portion once again:

Second, This carnal mindset of total inaiblity to please God is due to its nature of enmity toward God. Note that Paul says "IS enmity" not that it might "become" or has the "potential for" enmity as your doctrine of the fallen nature demands. The linking verb "is" is a STATE OF BEING verb and thus is describing what it "IS" by nature. The carnal mind IS enmity.

The term "enmity" means a STATE OF WAR. Hence, the fallen nature IS what it is - a state of war against God. This is what it is BY NATURE. That is its condition. That is its STATE OF BEING. That is not its POTENTIAL or what it MAY BECOME due to hardening but that is what it IS. What something IS, is its nature.

Your whole view of fallen man denies what it IS by nature as your view sees only that as its POTENTIAL due to hardening or something it becomes by process.

My view states this IS its nature and that is why it IS always at all times resistant to God's will/law - "and IS not subject to the law of God." Again, this "IS" what it "IS" by nature. By nature it is RESISTANT to God's will at all times because at all times it "IS" at war with God by nature.

This 'IS" what it "IS" from birth to death as man comes into the world with this kind of FALLEN NATURE and will leave this life with this kind of fallen nature.

Your view cannot accept this NATURE of fallen man because by nature the human will is totally IMPOTENT under the mastery of the law of indwelling sin and is FREE from righteousness and totally DEPRAVED as it IS by nature in a state of war and IS by nature resistant to the will of God and therefore is by nature TOTAL INABILITY to please God - "Neither indeed CAN be. So, they who are in the flesh CANNOT please God."

They CANNOT because they WILL NOT and they WILL NOT because that IS the nature of fallen man or the nature of ENMITY = state of war = the nature of resistance - "not subject to the law of God" That IS the nature of fallen man.

Oh yes:thumbsup:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Of course I remember and that is precisely what I said was presented in the imperative mode. Repent is never presented as an "appeal" but always as a command in the imperative mode. Take a concordance or if you know Greek look at your Greek New Testament or shall I print them out for you??

Believe is not presented as an "appeal" but as a command.

Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent [imperative mode] ye, and believe [imperative mode] the gospel.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe [imperative mode] also in me.

Ac 16:31 And they said, Believe [imperative mode] on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

In other cases the future tense and subjunctive mode do not contradict it is a command.

Right again:thumbsup:

 

[The Biblicist]

Biblicist,

Regarding your point about man's nature of ENMITY in Rom 8:7, I do believe my point in #92 addressed this

No, your post did not address it

and you didn't address what I wrote. It is possible your response was buried but I don't remember seeing your reply to my point.

I addressed it in two posts (#96, #97)

You must remember that we both believe that men have a sinful flesh and enmity against God. We both believe that we need divine assistance to leave that flesh and receive the spirit. You believe that 'assistance' is irresistible/effectual and I do not, that is all. How does establishing, over and over again, a point of agreement help your cause?

No, we do not agree on this issue and that is precisely why you refuse to deal with that section of the post although it is has now been resposted five times and yet without response. That text teaches very clearly TOTAL depravity and TOTAL inability and you do not believe that. You dare not address it because it will expose your false teaching as your denial of the irresistable work of the Holy Spirit is founded upon your denial of the TOTAL depravity and TOTAL inability of the fallen nature.

It's not as if I'm arguing that a enemy can be reconciled to God without God's powerful appeal to be reconciled.

There is nothing in fallen human nature that can be appealed to before (Rom. 8;7-8) or after salvation (Rom. 7:18).

It's not as if I'm arguing that a slave can be freed apart from the truth which sets men free.

Truth defined as proper information cannot free anyone spiritually from sin but only a creative act by the Person of truth - 2 Cor. 4:6.

It's not as if I'm arguing that a dead man can be brought to life a part from God's life-giving message of hope.

The gospel as INFORMATION cannot make anything live that is spiritually dead - James 1:18 but it must be empowered by the creative will of God.

Just because I deny the irresistible nature of God's work in reconciling the world to Himself, doesn't mean I deny the need or enabling nature of that work! <----When you think I haven't sufficiently responded to your post re-read this over and over again.[/QUOTE]

You either do not understand the true nature of fallen man or you are perverting the Word of God and there is no third alternative. Remember, this discussion began with me asking you to define the fallen nature of man. You refused to do so, as your response was simply that man needed to be reconciled to God, which is no definition of the fallen nature of man. Hence, I supplied a Biblical definition which thoroughly repudiates your view of man's fallen nature. If you think not, then I challenge you to address my response line by line. You have not done so up to this point although this makes SIX times I have requested you to do so.

 

[The Biblicist]

He didn't say "God was reconciling the THE BELIEVERS TO EACH OTHER in Christ"...he said, "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ." And it doesn't stop there he goes on to show he is talking about forgiveness of sin by saying, "not counting men's sins against them."

Why play this silly little game! YOu know very well that I did not say this. So why act as though I did? Neither did he say this ministry of reconciliation was given to the world did he? He said neither! Follow the pronouns if you really want to be truthful in your reporting of scripture:


18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Do you know the difference between "us" in verse 18 and "their" and "them" in verse 19 as opposed to the pronouns "you" and "ye" in verse 20???

Let me approach this another way. Do you believe the church members at Corinth are included in verses 17-18???? If so, would that mean they are no longer in need to be reconciled to God in verse 19 but have been reconciled to God through faith in Christ?? How then are "YOU" and "YE" in verse 20 still in need to be reconciled to God as those already new creatures in Christ (v. 17)?? Isn't it self-evident how if you simply read the two letters? You really don't believe that the "their" and "them" in verse 19 are the same "you" and "ye" in verse 20 do you? Show a little integrity with the scripture please.