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Two parts of baptism?
- Thread starter Jarlaxle
- Start date
Ed, With you logic just seems to jump out the window 
Actually, Christianity isn't logical but that has nothing to do with what I said. What is not logical is believing that Jesus and Paul would not answer direct questions when asked.
Now Ed, instead of a one liner(I must admit you are good at them) please respond to my "real" argument. You can even use some logic if you would like
In Christ,
Brian
Actually, Christianity isn't logical but that has nothing to do with what I said. What is not logical is believing that Jesus and Paul would not answer direct questions when asked.
Now Ed, instead of a one liner(I must admit you are good at them) please respond to my "real" argument. You can even use some logic if you would like
In Christ,
Brian
trying2understand
New Member
1+1=2 is a poor analogy. If interpreting Scripture was that simple there would not be thousands of differing sects, all claiming to base their beliefs soley on Scripture.Originally posted by The Briguy:
Ron, OK and what verse are you saying Paul said. Why do I think I would interpret it differently then you? You know if I say 1+1=2 and you say 3 it doesn't make 2 less right. I believe in scripture and I believe you are wrong
Now, if you think Jesus was telling us to sell our possesions because of the verse I said you are worse off then I thoughtBut since I know you were just kidding I will leave it alone.(You were kidding right?)
In Christ,
Brian
How exactly is it that you know that you are correct in your understanding? More than anything else, I would be interested in an answer to that question.
How do you know you are correct?
Ron
SolaScriptura
New Member
That isn't logical to men, but God's ways are higher than ours.
Ron, I humbly admit that I do not have a good answer to your question. I have no problem telling you that you have a good point because your point here is good. I know exactly what you are saying here and it makes sense. You are saying that since I can't know 100% certain that I am right I can give that burden over to the "church" (the Catholic one that is). That thought is not a bad one on the surface.
However, Scripture itself tells me to search God's word and based on your view I would only really need to look at Catholic church teaching. Whether you can be humble enough to admit it or
not you have less need for the Bible and Bible study then I do because all of your beliefs are pre-determined. I have come to my conclusions based on prayer, study, messages at church, experiences, etc... If I am wrong on any point I will someday bow before my God and ask for forgiveness and I believe he will forgive me. God has my heart and my salvation is sure, even though my flesh may fail Jesus will wash away my sin and I will prevail (hey, I made that up on the fly, not bad if I do say so myself)
Ron, I humbly say to you that I will prayerfully consider what you say. I love to study and grow in Christ, I hope you never stop questioning either. We grow by questioning.
In Christ,
Brian
[ June 07, 2002, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: The Briguy ]
However, Scripture itself tells me to search God's word and based on your view I would only really need to look at Catholic church teaching. Whether you can be humble enough to admit it or
not you have less need for the Bible and Bible study then I do because all of your beliefs are pre-determined. I have come to my conclusions based on prayer, study, messages at church, experiences, etc... If I am wrong on any point I will someday bow before my God and ask for forgiveness and I believe he will forgive me. God has my heart and my salvation is sure, even though my flesh may fail Jesus will wash away my sin and I will prevail (hey, I made that up on the fly, not bad if I do say so myself)
Ron, I humbly say to you that I will prayerfully consider what you say. I love to study and grow in Christ, I hope you never stop questioning either. We grow by questioning.
In Christ,
Brian
[ June 07, 2002, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: The Briguy ]
trying2understand
New Member
Hi Brian,
No, I have not simply given over a burden of knowing what is truth to the Catholic Church and I do not have my beliefs pre-determined by the Church. I believe as I do because it seems to me to be more in line with Scripture, history, and logic than anything I have seen elsewhere.
Scripture tells us that Scripture is not of personal interpretation. Most non-Catholics turn this around to mean that they are to interpret Scripture on their own, but in reality they rely upon others such as their pastor or Calvin for example. Scripture does not tell us that Scripture is the sole or final authority of faith. Scripture tells us that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.
History shows that the beliefs of the early Church were consistent with the Catholic Church. Baptists talk about "hidden churches", destroyed evidence, and heretical sects that may or may not have held one or two of the Baptist distinctives while at the same time holding very heretical and anti-Scriptural beliefs. The writings which do exist from the early Church clearly support Catholic beliefs. Physical evidence such as the catacombs also lend further supportive evidence.
Logic tells me that while the Apostles wrote most of the New Testament, neither Jesus nor the Apostles told us which writings are inspired and thus Scripture. Other men recognized them as inspired under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Who were those men and where did they get the authority to do so? If you do not accept the passing of Apostolic authority from generation to generation, where does that authority come from?
I believe that the Catholic Church and it's teachings are truth becasue it is supported by Scripture, history and logic. I have seen nothing else that comes close.
Ron
Ron, thanks for the kind post. You know I disagree with any thought that people were responsible for the Bible. I believe God wrote it. Oh do I wish that He would just supernaturally produce all the bibles in the world, that would sure dissolve a lot of problems. Anyway, I have an honest and meant to be sincere question for you.
Do you currently disagree with any Catholic teaching or scriptual interpretation?
Also, this may sound silly but I don't trust that the writings of the early church fathers are accurate. I just think that it was so long ago that writngs could have be altered redated, etc...
and.... if they are accurate in what they say why are they right when we know that churches all over were messed up as early as 50AD. The early churches should have had an infallible element to them but they didn't
In Love and truth,
Thanks for the good converstion on this!!!!
Brian
Do you currently disagree with any Catholic teaching or scriptual interpretation?
Also, this may sound silly but I don't trust that the writings of the early church fathers are accurate. I just think that it was so long ago that writngs could have be altered redated, etc...
and.... if they are accurate in what they say why are they right when we know that churches all over were messed up as early as 50AD. The early churches should have had an infallible element to them but they didn't
In Love and truth,
Thanks for the good converstion on this!!!!
Brian
Which takes more power?
To stay on the cross in humiliation, knowing you can jump down and stomp the crap out of everybody with your pinky. Or to jump down and stomp the crap out of everybody because you can?
Again, you leave premise of Love out. I stated we do not agree on the premises, but the logic is sound.
Jarlaxle
To stay on the cross in humiliation, knowing you can jump down and stomp the crap out of everybody with your pinky. Or to jump down and stomp the crap out of everybody because you can?
Again, you leave premise of Love out. I stated we do not agree on the premises, but the logic is sound.
Jarlaxle
The verse says this:
"16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Noticed who is damned, it is the one who believes not, not "Baptized not". The baptized in this verse is simply the confirmation of saving belief. Kind of like signing a marriage certificate. This verse in a sense is saying, he who believes and signs on the doted line, shall be saved.
In Love and Truth,
Brian
[ June 10, 2002, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: The Briguy ]
"16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Noticed who is damned, it is the one who believes not, not "Baptized not". The baptized in this verse is simply the confirmation of saving belief. Kind of like signing a marriage certificate. This verse in a sense is saying, he who believes and signs on the doted line, shall be saved.
In Love and Truth,
Brian
[ June 10, 2002, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: The Briguy ]
MEE wrote:
"Is your name written in the "Lamb's Book of Life?""
MEE, Thank you for your concern.
Yes, My name IS written in the "Lamb's book of life" and, in fact, Jesus wrote it in his own blood.
MEE, Some people actually think their names are written with water, how silly is that? and some think with blood and water, I guess because the blood of Jesus needs alittle help.
As for me I am content to be simply washed in His blood alone
As for your example based on my example. No example is perfect but do you think that if a groom dies after the wedding ceremoney but before he signs the "paper" he is not married?
In Christ,
Brian
"Is your name written in the "Lamb's Book of Life?""
MEE, Thank you for your concern.
Yes, My name IS written in the "Lamb's book of life" and, in fact, Jesus wrote it in his own blood.
MEE, Some people actually think their names are written with water, how silly is that? and some think with blood and water, I guess because the blood of Jesus needs alittle help.
As for me I am content to be simply washed in His blood alone
As for your example based on my example. No example is perfect but do you think that if a groom dies after the wedding ceremoney but before he signs the "paper" he is not married?
In Christ,
Brian