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Two parts of baptism?
- Thread starter Jarlaxle
- Start date
Hello to all:
I have been on vacation for a few days. I see that things have not changed much. Sularis, I am glad the garments issue is your opinion. I looked in the New Testament and could not find any authority for baptism being cultural or and option. The fact is history records that men were baptized for the remission of sins as well as the New Testament.( Acts 2:38;8:38-40;22:16,Eph 5:26, Rev. 1:5). An accepted practive observed for hundreds of years before Calvin began his heresy.
Furthermore, The sinners prayer was a product of a movement of Elezar Weekley in 1730. He began the art of manipulation by using the mourners seat. It was perfected by J.V. Commbs in the 19th century. ( Cane Ridge revival 1803). Today, this false doctrine continues with three Billy's Sunday, Bright, Graham.
Just as you will not find baptism as optional or cultural in the scriptures, you will not find the sinners prayer for salvation in the New Testament scriptures either.
Frank
I have been on vacation for a few days. I see that things have not changed much. Sularis, I am glad the garments issue is your opinion. I looked in the New Testament and could not find any authority for baptism being cultural or and option. The fact is history records that men were baptized for the remission of sins as well as the New Testament.( Acts 2:38;8:38-40;22:16,Eph 5:26, Rev. 1:5). An accepted practive observed for hundreds of years before Calvin began his heresy.
Furthermore, The sinners prayer was a product of a movement of Elezar Weekley in 1730. He began the art of manipulation by using the mourners seat. It was perfected by J.V. Commbs in the 19th century. ( Cane Ridge revival 1803). Today, this false doctrine continues with three Billy's Sunday, Bright, Graham.
Just as you will not find baptism as optional or cultural in the scriptures, you will not find the sinners prayer for salvation in the New Testament scriptures either.
Frank
dhk:
You continue to attempt to prop up yuir case by what is not written in certain scriptures. This is tobe expected when one canno use the totality of the evidence to prove all things.( IThes. 5:21).Your reasoning is fallacious. In Romans 10:17, belief is not mentioned. Do you exclude belief from salvation.In Lk. 13:3, Jesus did not mention confession, do yuuoexclude it based on this verse? If you are consistent with your reasoning, you should. In Mat. 10:32, faith is not mentioned, do you exclude it? If not why not? It says nothing about faith in this passage. In IPet. 3:21, faith, belief, repentance and confession are not mentioned, do you exclude them based on this verse?
The Bible teaches that sinners who have not complied with the terms of accepting grace must be baptized for unto the remission of sins in the New Testament. Jesus said so.(Mk. 16:16). The Holy Spirit through Peter said so. ( Acts 2:38). Paul said so.( Gal. 3:26-29).
Frank
You continue to attempt to prop up yuir case by what is not written in certain scriptures. This is tobe expected when one canno use the totality of the evidence to prove all things.( IThes. 5:21).Your reasoning is fallacious. In Romans 10:17, belief is not mentioned. Do you exclude belief from salvation.In Lk. 13:3, Jesus did not mention confession, do yuuoexclude it based on this verse? If you are consistent with your reasoning, you should. In Mat. 10:32, faith is not mentioned, do you exclude it? If not why not? It says nothing about faith in this passage. In IPet. 3:21, faith, belief, repentance and confession are not mentioned, do you exclude them based on this verse?
The Bible teaches that sinners who have not complied with the terms of accepting grace must be baptized for unto the remission of sins in the New Testament. Jesus said so.(Mk. 16:16). The Holy Spirit through Peter said so. ( Acts 2:38). Paul said so.( Gal. 3:26-29).
Frank
Briguy:
Baptism for the remission of sins is for the sinner. There are no exceptions given in the pages of the New Testament. The real question is who is the sinner? How does one become a sinner?
The Bible says that men are sinners when they transgress God's Law. In I Jn. 3:4, the bible says,"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law; FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW." Trangression in the original language means to miss the mark, to go passed or to violate the standard. Who does trangress the law? Paul says, in Romans 7:7," What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not KNOWN lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." Paul sinned when he had KNOWLEDGE OF LUST AND LAW.
WHEN?
At Birth? No, In Romans 7:9,Paul writes, For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came , sin revived and I died. Paul was alive once without the law. From the context, Paul became a sinner when he was able to know lust and law( vs. 7) until then he was not a sinner. He was a child.Infants do not know law. They do not understand lust.They are safe in the arms of Christ spiritually. Jesus said in Luke 18:15,16," And they brought unto him also INFANTS, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them unto him and said, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the Kingdom Of God."
Finally, the Bible teaches that one becomes a sinner when he has the ability to know law and right and wrong. The Bible teaches that Infants do not possess this ability. Therefore, they are not candidates for baptism for the remission of sins because they have yet to sin. Men are alive once without law. It is when they are as little children.( Romans 7:9).
Frank
Baptism for the remission of sins is for the sinner. There are no exceptions given in the pages of the New Testament. The real question is who is the sinner? How does one become a sinner?
The Bible says that men are sinners when they transgress God's Law. In I Jn. 3:4, the bible says,"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law; FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW." Trangression in the original language means to miss the mark, to go passed or to violate the standard. Who does trangress the law? Paul says, in Romans 7:7," What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not KNOWN lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." Paul sinned when he had KNOWLEDGE OF LUST AND LAW.
WHEN?
At Birth? No, In Romans 7:9,Paul writes, For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came , sin revived and I died. Paul was alive once without the law. From the context, Paul became a sinner when he was able to know lust and law( vs. 7) until then he was not a sinner. He was a child.Infants do not know law. They do not understand lust.They are safe in the arms of Christ spiritually. Jesus said in Luke 18:15,16," And they brought unto him also INFANTS, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them unto him and said, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the Kingdom Of God."
Finally, the Bible teaches that one becomes a sinner when he has the ability to know law and right and wrong. The Bible teaches that Infants do not possess this ability. Therefore, they are not candidates for baptism for the remission of sins because they have yet to sin. Men are alive once without law. It is when they are as little children.( Romans 7:9).
Frank
IJohn 1:7,8,10
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
It is not baptism that remits sin; it is the blood of Christ. After that we are still sinners; deny that and you make Jesus Christ a liar and the truth is not in you.
DHK
SolaScriptura
New Member
(Mat 26:28 KJV) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(Acts 2:38 KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Bold portion is exact same phrase in both Greek and English. Jesus' blood remits sins, but we contact Jesus' blood in baptism. Rom 6 says we are baptized into Christ (that is His body, where His blood is) and into His death (where His blood was shed). It is baptism then that puts you into His cleansing blood.
Finally, something new! DHK, notice what you just posted please! The verse you quote makes salvation conditional...and not only that but places some responsibility on man...on actions even. IF WE WALK IN THE LIGHT...THEN WE ARE CLEANSED BY THE BLOOD. What does it mean to walk in the light? Heb 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" What must we obey? For one, "Repent & be baptized" (Acts 2:38)
PS: As a sidenote, I John 1:7 also disproves the common Baptist "Once Saved Always Saved" doctrine. If you cease to walk in the light you cease to be cleansed by the blood, and without the cleansing of the blood you cannot be saved!
[ July 06, 2002, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura ]
Sir Ed,
According to this type of reasoning, you would have to agree that a person actually contacts the blood of Jesus at the moment that a person believes in Jesus Christ.
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43
Contact with the blood of Jesus occurs at the moment of believing. (prior to baptism)
According to this type of reasoning, you would have to agree that a person actually contacts the blood of Jesus at the moment that a person believes in Jesus Christ.
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43
Contact with the blood of Jesus occurs at the moment of believing. (prior to baptism)
SolaScriptura
New Member
(Mat 26:28 KJV) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(Acts 2:38 KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
--Same exact language, both FOR the remission.
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43
--Future tense on the recieving SHALL RECIEVE but not immediately.
(John 3:16) "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
--SHOULD not WILL
(Acts 5:32) "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."
--Holy Ghost given to OBEDIENT.
etc. etc.
(Acts 2:38 KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
--Same exact language, both FOR the remission.
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43
--Future tense on the recieving SHALL RECIEVE but not immediately.
(John 3:16) "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
--SHOULD not WILL
(Acts 5:32) "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."
--Holy Ghost given to OBEDIENT.
etc. etc.