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Two Thoughts

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Silverhair

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All of Adam's Posterity sinned in Adam and left Spiritually dead and their 'ability to make real choices' is restricted to sin and no ability to Relate, Spiritually, to God, Who is Spirit, unless He Takes the Initiative.

Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return."

Do you know what is missing "All men sinned in Adam"

You are trusting Gill or whoever for your theology rather than the bible. The bible should be your authority then you will not run into so many errors.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Now now Alan no need to get upset and say nasty things. Perhaps you need to take a time out.

You still avoid the obvious problem of your theology. If your version of God determines all things then that means all things not some things as you seem to want. Either man has a free will or he does not. You seem to be having a problem grasping that fact.

Man's Free Agency is only capable of exercising it's Nature, which is in the flesh, to sin, not "Quicken themselves" into Eternal Life, as if they have any degree of Divinity.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return."

Do you know what is missing "All men sinned in Adam"

You are trusting Gill or whoever for your theology rather than the bible. The bible should be your authority then you will not run into so many errors.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12

John Gill: Doctrinal Divinity - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
 
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Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Alan you refuse to see the flies in your soup. If the calvinist God determines all things then man has no option but to do as He [God] has determined him to do. So if God has determined him to sin he will sin not by choice but by compulsion. So we have your version of God causing the sin that He then condemns the man for. You have a strange view of the God of the bible.

False Strawman with error in philosophy.

So if God has determined him to sin he will sin not by choice but by compulsion. So we have your version of God causing the sin that He then condemns the man for

No compulsion, no causing the sin,
but there is Just Condemnation.

God foretells by his prophets what will be, because he has determined it shall be; if, therefore, the condemnation of those persons was foretold in any written prophecy, it was because God had decreed it should come upon them, or they be brought into it.

It seems to have the same sense with God's appointing men unto wrath; which, though not in so many words expressed, is manifestly implied; as when the apostle says, "God hath not appointed us to wrath", who yet were children of wrath, and deserving of it as others; "but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ":

it suggests, that though he had not appointed them, yet he had appointed others to wrath, and who are therefore called "vessels of wrath, fitted for destruction", by their own sins and transgressions, #1Th 5:9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"

Ro 9:22. "What if God, willing to shew his wrath,
and to make his power known,
endured with much longsuffering
the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"

With which agrees what is said of some wicked men, who are "reserved" in the purposes and decrees of God, "to the day of destruction"; in consequence of which, "they shall be brought to the day of wrath", which God has appointed for the execution of his wrath;

and hence the casting of the fury of his wrath, in all the dreadful instances of it, is called "the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage appointed; unto him of God", #Job 21:30 20:23-29

and this is the sense of #Pr 16:4 for the meaning of the text is not, nor is it our sense of it, as some misrepresent it, as if God made man to damn him;

we say no such thing, nor does the text; our sentiment is, that God made man neither to damn nor save him; but he made him for his own glory, and he will be glorified in him, in one way or another:

nor that he made man wicked, in order to damn him; for God made man upright; men made themselves wicked by their own inventions;

which are the cause of damnation: but the true sense of the passage is, that "the Lord hath made", that is, has appointed "all things for himself", for his own glory: and should it be objected, that the wicked could not be for his glory, it is added, "Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil";

that is, he has appointed the wicked for the day of evil, to suffer justly for their sins, to the illustration of the glory of his justice.

His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3

THE LAW GIVEN TO ADAM,
AND THE COVENANT MADE WITH HIM
IN HIS STATE OF INNOCENCE;

IN WHICH HE WAS THE FEDERAL HEAD AND REPRESENTATIVE OF HIS POSTERITY.
 
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