He's writing to Jews who were feeling pressure to go back to the Sinai Covenant. He is warning them that going back means rejecting the covenant of grace for a covenant that had ended at the cross.
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Two views of being saved
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Point 2 is 100% against the Teachings of the Holy Bible. ALL those who are true born again believers, know NOW that they are saved and part of the Family of God. Option 2 is a non starter. For anyone to believe that option 2 is the correct answer, they are most probably not saved. They don't have the witness of the Holy Spirit.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Judas was CHOSEN by Jesus Christ, God Incarnate. Also, as one of the 12 Apostles, this is what Jesus says
“And when it was day, He called His disciples; and he chose from them twelve, whom also He named apostles: Simon, whom He also named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip and Bartholomew, and Matthew and Thomas, and James [the son] of Alphæus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, and Judas [the son] of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor” (Luke 6:13-16)
“And he called unto Him His twelve disciples, and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of disease and all manner of sickness…These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying…And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand…Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give" (Matthew 10:1, 5, 7, 8)
Jesus also addressed these words to Judas
“And Jesus said unto His disciples… And when the disciples heard it…”And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit on the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Matthew 19: 23, 25, 28)
Even though Judas was not saved in the end (Acts 1:24-26), everything that was told to and given to the other 11, was also to Judas. There was no deception on the part of Jesus when He included Judas. As He did for the Lord's Supper, which we have seen a few times from Luke 22
The term "devil" διάβολος, actually means, " a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer", also for the Devil.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Universal Atonement places salvation on your shoulders. You are the savior and you know more of your own weaknesses than anyone. I cannot trust myself enough to know I'm saved in that case.
But Limited Atonement tells me I believe because Christ fully paid for all my sins. My faith is in Jesus, the author and finisher of my faith who cannot fail. And I know I'm saved or I would not experience Christ in my heart and believe.
But Limited Atonement tells me I believe because Christ fully paid for all my sins. My faith is in Jesus, the author and finisher of my faith who cannot fail. And I know I'm saved or I would not experience Christ in my heart and believe.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
is not taught in the Bible, but the universal Death of Jesus Christ, most certainly IS!
And, any "limitation" on the Death of Jesus Christ is plain heresy!
Of course Jesus death was universal. Does anyone believe only his left side died, but his right side remained alive?
His death was an atonement for sin. As you correctly state, his atonement is limited to those who believe.
37818
Well-Known Member
That does not change what it says and means in Hebrews 10:29.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 10.29 is to ALL those who are sanctified who are only the saved
Yes, as that warning in Hebrews 10:29 refers to those who rejected the Cross of Christ after learning of Him, in order to return to temple sacrifice!
Do you not limit it to be effectual only to the saved?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
the issue is how how many will be saved at the end, but for when did Jesus Christ die, and why the unsaved are indeed lost. this is the nub of the issue.
37818
Well-Known Member
You are arguing from view 1) maybe not understanding view 2).
I rephrased view 2) in post #3 as:
2) The saved know they are saved now, but it can be lost.
Personally for me the notion one can be saved and become lost I find untenable. There are genuine Christians that think that way.
There are former professing christians who are no longer professing christians.
they are the pigs who put on a fine suit, and then went back into the mud!
All who are lost have rejected Jesus to save them, and the Father grants them their desire to get away from Him!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I very sadly bring up the name Ravi Zacharias here.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
you guys do make me laugh at least!
Because you really do NOT know WHAT you believe in! On the one had we read from your camp, that no human being has a FREE WILL, that all has been predetermined by God, and the elect will be saved, and those who are the non elect, will be lost, because of the fact that they are not elect. Now you say that those who are lost, REJECTED Jesus to save them??? This, my friend, requires FREE WILL!!!
37818
Well-Known Member
So are you saying the saved can deny the faith and become lost?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Check the context
he is the one who was a modern day Judas it would appear