Types of Calvinists

[Jarthur001]

Is the one I used without the additions you made.

BUT BOB....that is not what it means. do you not get it?? Your placing the wrong meaning on there. hello???

forget it Bob.

nice try.

 

[Brother Bob]

Got ya James;
Sorry

Rom 8:29

For whom he did foreknow, (Those who believed) he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. (Those who believed) Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

1Pe 1:20

Who verily was foreordained (Those who God sees believe at all times) before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,


Not hard when you know that God don't have to deal with time.:thumbs:
__________________

 

[Blammo]

Am I missing something here James? It is your word not mine.

I don't know Brother Bob, I think James defines both foreknow and predestinate the same way, (arbitrarily selected before the foundation of the world). In other words, James may have the verse read: "whom he did arbitrarily select before the foundation of the world, he also did arbitrarily select before the foundation of the world, and whom he did arbitrarily select before the foundation of the world, he also arbitrarily selected before the foundation of the world, and whom he arbitrarily selected....."

You get the picture. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Jarthur001]

Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results

Result of search for "proginosko": 4267. proginosko prog-in-oce'-ko from 4253 and 1097; to know beforehand, i.e. foresee:--foreknow (ordain), know (before).​

Am I missing something here James? It is your word not mine.

Yes.

In Greek you have many things to look at. tense of the verb... Tense - which this is Aorist See
Voice - Active See 5784
Mood - Indicative See 5791


But last and the top most thing...context. Notice I listed the verses where the word is used. But after we are clear of the meaning we will see the context in full glory as to why this is election.

But we can never get there with adding to the Word. If you need to add...its not there. Just use the words..and not add.

BTW..that was not the full statement from strongs...now was it? I think I gave this and more...did I not? What have you not posted Bob?

 

[Blammo]

Yes.

In Greek you have many things to look at. tense of the verb... Tense - which this is Aorist See
Voice - Active See 5784
Mood - Indicative See 5791


But last and the top most thing...context. Notice I listed the verses where the word is used. But after we are clear of the meaning we will see the context in full glory as to why this is election.

But we can never get there with adding to the Word. If you need to add...its not there. Just use the words..and not add.

BTW..that was not the full statement from strongs...now was it? I think I gave this and more...did I not? What have you not posted Bob?

Why don't you just get to the point? If there even is one...

English is fine with me, by the way.

 

[Brother Bob]

BTW..that was not the full statement from strongs...now was it? I think I gave this and more...did I not? What have you not posted Bob?

My hands are clean James Old Strong never gave me no more. Sorry.

You know James the Bible says to rightly divide the word of truth and to preach that which becometh sound doctrine. We are preaching "after the fact" and any preacher worth his salt don't just read scripture after scripture or they all would walk out on you for they would just go home and read. What would they need you for. Preaching is a mystery and comes from God and is much more than just reading Scripture. That is why there are different kind of preachers and everyone abide in his own calling. Some have gifts of teaching and some of prophesying. Some are exorters etc. It takes all kind to reach a dying and lost world but you don't believe they have to be reached do you. I feel sad for you for we have a job to do that was given to us by the Lord and we were commanded to "go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature and he that believeth and is baptized SHALL be saved. That makes my heart run over with Joy James. I have had to preach two funerals this week. I usally preach one or two a week sometimes as high as seven in a row and gets very tiresome but when they left a hope for us that they are at rest it makes it much easier and it gives me a chance to reach all their family and tell them about a Jesus that loved them enough to die for them. Maybe I just sowed a little seed today with the help of the Lord and hopefully He will water it. So pray James for the good of the Lord to be done and not that the devil will claim our love one. amen, instead of accusing me of lying.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Hey npet; we called them tattle tale in school. :laugh:

I saved the entire post for my own benefit npet;

Context is everything you know npet;

We used to have a name for tattle tales and took them out behind the schoolhouse at the end of the day and they forgot a lot. This shows everyone just how childish some are on here playing school games. "I gonna tell teacher on you". :laugh:

Npet.... this is the same guy who reported my post to the mods when I pointed out his ignorance of what calvinist truly believe and his dishonesty when representing what other people believe. Is that called hypocritical? But a good way to get the thread shut down huh?

 

[Brother Bob]

Npet.... this is the same guy who reported my post to the mods when I pointed out his ignorance of what calvinist truly believe and his dishonesty when representing what other people believe. Is that called hypocritical? But a good way to get the thread shut down huh?

Wonder how you would know whether I reported you or not unless one of the Mods is informing you of what is supposed to be kept to the leaders of this board. I am sure it is against policy to tell you that for they never told me who turned in my posts. You sure have a habit of sticking your nose in on other peoples personal posts don't you. You did the same the last time. Maybe if you didn't get out of line you would not get turned in for calling people names and being unchristian. The tone in your posts tell a lot about you. I will pray that God will help you get rid of the evil feeling you have towards me for it will destroy you and God will surely punish you for having such thoughts. I will give you some advice, enter into a closet close the door and ask God to forgive you for sowing discord among your brethren. raying: raying:

 

[reformedbeliever]

The way you know bb is to watch the quick link whos online and it shows what they are doing.... just like now when it said you were reporting a post. What you implied to npet was not Christian like.... as if he needed to be taken behind the school house? BB.... I would like you to take a look in the mirror. Please forgive me for saying what I said on the other post... I should have used the word ignorant. For that i'm sorry. But please stop accusing people of what you do yourself. I'm just pointing that out to you. By the way...... this is not a personal thread... it is open to all.

 

[npetreley]

Hey npet; we called them tattle tale in school. :laugh:

I saved the entire post for my own benefit npet;

Context is everything you know npet;

We used to have a name for tattle tales and took them out behind the schoolhouse at the end of the day and they forgot a lot. This shows everyone just how childish some are on here playing school games. "I gonna tell teacher on you". :laugh:

Not a response. Quoted for my own benefit.

 

[Brother Bob]

You need to reread the post and not be sowing discord. There is enough conflict on here without adding to it. I would just rather you leave me alone. I certainly will stay out of your way. I don't wish to say anything about you or to you. I just want you to leave me alone unless you want to talk civil. If you are going to call me dishonest I will turn you in every time.

 

[npetreley]

Npet.... this is the same guy who reported my post to the mods when I pointed out his ignorance of what calvinist truly believe and his dishonesty when representing what other people believe. Is that called hypocritical? But a good way to get the thread shut down huh?

Doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Brother Bob]

Prayer

I will pray for both of you. peaceraying:

 

[reformedbeliever]

You need to reread the post and not be sowing discord. There is enough conflict on here without adding to it. I would just rather you leave me alone. I certainly will stay out of your way. I don't wish to say anything about you or to you. I just want you to leave me alone unless you want to talk civil. If you are going to call me dishonest I will turn you in every time.

Just trying to keep you honest Bob. If you are going to tell someone about the speck in their eye (being a tattle tale) you should remove the log in your own eye first. I need to be sure to follow my own advise and will try to do just that. I'd love to be civil with you Bob, and I hope you will try to see that what you have been saying and the remarks you make are not civil. That is why people are recording them for their own benefit. How about forgiving me and lets both try to be civil and honest. How about it?

 

[Brother Bob]

Forgive you for what, for making misstatements about me?

 

[reformedbeliever]

Bob this is just one example of the dishonesty in your representation of people (calvinist in this example). This is from post number 56 of the thread on Christian Universalism.
Brother Bob said.....They just believe that God creates them sinful and gives them a choice that don't include anything except hell, with the exception of the "elect".

That is not what calvinist believe at all. That is the dishonesty I was speaking of. IF it is not dishonesty, then it is because of ignorance of what calvinist truly believe. You need to be sure of what someone believes before making statements of what they believe, or you could be accused of being dishonest. Hope this clears it up for you Bob.

 

[Brother Bob]

In no way is it dishonest. I am not a dishonest person and when you said I was you set my teeth on edge for who are you to call me dishonest. As far as the statement I made, I cleared up the part in the next couple of posts that God made them sinful but that they were born sinful. Now, Calvinist can say what they want but they say that God chooses to change some to believe and chooses not to change the others. What you are saying like it or not, it that God by not choosing to change a person in fact is choosing to let him go to hell. So, the final conclusion and you can put all the spin on it you want but Calvinist are saying that God chooses His "elect" to be saved and chooses to not change the not-elect so in fact is choosing them to hell. Who do you think made man anyway? Calvinist want to say that a man cannot choose to go to Heaven but can choose to go to Hell. To say otherwise to me is doubletalk.

As long as you call me dishonest we will never get along.

 

[npetreley]

Brother Bob said.....They just believe that God creates them sinful and gives them a choice that don't include anything except hell, with the exception of the "elect".

Quoted for my own benefit. Reformedbeliever: I agree with you. This is a statement that can only be made by someone who is either totally ignorant of what Calvinism is all about, or by someone who is simply spewing vitriol. I find it difficult to believe that anyone who participates in these forums a great deal can be this ignorant of what Calvinism is all about. They may disagree with it, but ignorant of it? I don't think so.

 

[Jarthur001]

Why don't you just get to the point? If there even is one...

English is fine with me, by the way.

I go slow, because some can only read one or 2 lines at a time.

yet you are right...no need to slow down for them....


The word as used in the Bible means more than foreknowledge about persons, it is the foreknowledge of persons.

In the context…. the foreknown are predestined to the image of Christ, and are called, justified and glorified.

This is not God gaining information. God knows for He is God, and therefore it is not just taking in knowledge as to who will believe and then elect them. God does not have to take information from US. This is crazy. Foreknowing is God Knows before it happens for he is God and His decree caused it to happen.

In 1Peter 1:2, the word for "foreknowledge" is the same as "foreordain" in the twentieth verse of the same chapter, where the meaning cannot be "foreknowledge" about Christ.


Context..

The whole passage is talking about the elect of God…

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

"For" is linked to all the statements of the elect before...Mainly the "called". Also remember predestinate is linked to those that are saved. Predestinate is the verb...that which follows is the action give from the verb. Now read 30...

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Notice the "call" before verse 28 and after verse 30. Each time we must look at context for each word. Call/invite in this case is talking about salvation. This is not always the case. Context is always the key to understanding Gods Word.

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.


**************

What you will also want to note.... Is each time the predestinate is used you will find "according to his purpose" found in verse 28 ...or something like this wording. Election is always viewed as Gods pleasure and purpose. ALWAYS. Again..this is linked to the verse with the word "for" in this context. Other times in a election passage you will find Gods pleasure and purpose in that verse, or the next verse.


Later today, If I have time I will show this. Not just with the word predestinate, but also election...elect....and choosen.

 

[Jarthur001]

In no way is it dishonest. I am not a dishonest person ................................