Typical Calvinists’ Methods of “Debate” and Elitism

[The Archangel]

The Archangel: Even still with your redefinition, it gives no restrictions for who can believe. The rendering of Whosoever believes is still solid.

No...you're missing the point. The text does not say "whosoever." The text says "all the ones believing." It makes no mention of how they became believing (at least, not in John 3:16 specifically).

Interestingly, in John 3:3 where Jesus tells Nicodemus that he must be "born again" that is not an imperative. In the Greek, it is in the passive, which means that Nicodemus must be acted upon. He must be born-ed again, presumably by God--for he cannot do this action upon himself.

So, while John 3:16 makes no mention of who can and who can't believe, it certainly seems that John--and Jesus, for that matter--is making the point that something must be done to you first in order to see the kingdom of heaven.

The Archangel

 

[Iconoclast]

BaptistJG

I would say the verse is quite clear that whosoever believes will be saved. Not who was predetermined.

That might be what you have been taught, but if you read Archangels fine post,,,,he tells you what it says....
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

So then I would say if this is true,

it is clearly not true however

and the Bible doesn't contradict itself.

It never contradicts itself

The idea that some are predestined and some are not,(I would say) is incompatible with Whosoever will. (2 Pe 3:9)

You are denying scripture now.....so take time to re-read the posts

The Archangel: Even still with your redefinition, it gives no restrictions for who can believe. The rendering of Whosoever believes is still solid.

Icon: I agree... salvation was meant to go worldwide, to the Jew first and then the Greek (Ro 1:16). The whole world. I must be missing something in your response .

The elect are found worldwide.....the whole world is not saved,