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tyranny of experts vs priesthood of all believers

Logos1560

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Mickey Carter wrote: "Best authorities in our viewpoint are the King James Version translators" (Things That Are Different Are Not the Same, p. 154). Donald Clarke noted: "The 'best authorities' become the final authority; the Bible must submit its message and authority to their critical scrutiny" (Bible Version Manual, p. 56). Bob Steward stated: "Final authorities are not to be questioned" (Biography of Erasmus, p. 4).

Are the opinions and interpretations of the KJV translators not to be questioned? Does this high praise for the Church of England translators of the KJV which practically makes them into a committee of infallible cardinals or popes prove this claim that the KJV translators should be our final authority? The KJV-only view seems to grant to the KJV translators an absolute, perfect, infallible knowledge which is in reality attainable only by divine revelation. KJV-only advocates seem to have cloaked the KJV translators with such robes of superiority and infallibility that even a pope could only envy. Has the sufficiency of God's Word been replaced with a "unique priesthood" of the KJV translators? If God's Word was "wholly revealed" to the KJV translators, they become the ultimate standard for truth, beyond which there is no other. When the product of the KJV translators is made the final authority, it would make these men who produced it the final authority.

This claim of superiority suggests that the authority of a translation depends on the authority of its translators. Should we accept a gnostic idea that a certain group, such as the KJV translators, were possessed of a special or secret knowledge (gnosis), totally beyond the understanding of other believers? Can any man or group of men including the KJV translators be trusted with the unlimited power of being infallible interpreters and authoritative translators? Do the combined scholarship and opinions of several men produce perfection? Charles Spurgeon observed: "For if you mass together a number of men, each one of whom is fallible, it is clear that you are no nearer infallibility" (The Infallible Word, p. 32).

Do KJV-only advocates bind themselves to the opinions and interpretations of the finite and fallible KJV translators as their ultimate voice of authority? This dependence on the authority of the fallible KJV translators indicates a serious weakness with the KJV-only view. The KJV-only view depends on the inappropriate authority of fallible, uninspired men.

The KJV-only view seems to abandon the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers as it implies the exclusive priesthood of only a group of Church of England scholars in 1611. Is the KJV-only view in effect a return to a form of sacerdotalism? If the KJV-only view did not depend on the authority of men (the KJV translators), there would have been no need to stress so much the scholarship of these men.

Where does God's Word teach that any committee of a state church is superior to other believers in translating God's Word regardless of their scholarship? Where does the Bible teach that the KJV translators should be exalted to a role of being in effect mediators between the English-speaking believer and the Word of God? Were the KJV translators superior to the manuscripts and copies of God's Word in the original languages which they used? Did the KJV translators have the miraculous credentials of the prophets and apostles?

KJV-only advocate Jack Moorman stated: "Within the New Testament Church there has never been any body of men to whom God has given any special authority to make decisions concerning the New Testament canon or the New Testament text" (Forever Settled, p. 46). Timothy Morton wrote: "God never intended for a 'priest class' of elite scholars to have a lock on the words of life" (Which Translation Should You Trust, p. 68). Wayne Williams claimed: "God placed no scholastic lords over His heritage" (Does God Have a Controversy, p. 66). R. B. Ouellette wrote: “It is wrong to commit--to any individual or exclusive group--the determination of truth for every person in matters relating to faith” (More Sure Word, p. 51). Ouellette wrote: “God did not appoint scholars to be the final authorities for the interpretation of Scripture” (p. 27). Moorman, Morton, and Williams fail to apply their statements to the KJV translators. However, it is obvious that God's Word does not teach that God gave the KJV translators special, superior, or ultimate authority to make decisions concerning the text or translation of His Word.

No one man or group of men can have an exclusive and sole access to the truth or reach sinless perfection which makes them the ultimate translators/interpreters, beyond which there can be no other. Thomas Smyth’s statement about the doctrine of apostolic succession would seem to apply also to the KJV-only doctrine. Smyth disagreed with this doctrine‘s “teaching that prelates are the authoritative interpreters of scriptures, so that it must mean what they are pleased to say it does mean” (Prelatical Doctrine, p. 97).

Does the KJV-only view result in the tyranny of the experts as it seems to give rule over all English-speaking churches and believers to a small group of scholars who are alone claimed or implied to be competent, authoritative, and trustworthy in understanding, interpreting, and translating the preserved Scriptures in the original languages?

In fact, such KJV-only claims and reasoning seem to reveal a disregard for the Scriptural doctrine of the priesthood of the believer that KJV-only advocates say that they accept. Lloyd Streeter, a KJV-only author, wrote: “The doctrine of preservation of Scripture is wrapped up in the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers, a Baptist distinctive” (Seventy-five Problems, p. 145). David Cloud cited where Jack Moorman also maintained that “preservation is brought to pass through the priesthood of believers” (Things Hard, p. 297). Is the KJV-only view in practice consistent with the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers? Does a claim of superiority for the KJV translators conflict with the doctrine of the priesthood of believers? Is it Scriptural to suggest or imply that a small group of men in 1611 had a special, exclusive priesthood that made them exempt from error or mistake in translating which no other believers can have? Were the KJV translators superior in rank, position, or authority to other believers? Are certain men such as the KJV translators more important and superior to others in the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:18-24)? No amount of education and scholarship could prevent the KJV translators from making any errors in translation. If we say that the KJV translators have not sinned or made any mistakes in translating without being supernaturally inspired, we make God a liar (1 John 1:10). Are some fundamentalist KJV-only advocates implying that education and scholarship can produce perfection and inerrancy in the translating of God's Word? Was the scholarship of the KJV translators so exhaustive and comprehensive that they could not possibly make a mistake in translating? Does the KJV-only view promote a form of environmental determinism that in effect argues that the KJV translators were so uniquely shaped by their environment and education that they alone could make a perfect translation? These questions were suggested by the claims and logical implications of the KJV-only view.

Even if it could be demonstrated that the KJV translators were better or superior in translating than most, superiority does not mean or produce perfection and infallibility. Surely, KJV-only defenders are not claiming that the KJV translators' scholarship made them into the final and exclusive authority over God's Word. According to the consistent teachings of God's Word, the KJV translators are not to be regarded with blind devotion as though they possessed superhuman attributes or infallible scholarship with an exclusive exemption from any possibility of error or mistake. The knowledge and scholarship of all mankind including that of the KJV translators is partial, incomplete, and thus imperfect (1 Cor. 13:12). Noah Webster, who learned twenty-six languages, wisely noted in his 1828 dictionary: "No man is infallible; to be infallible is the prerogative of God only." Waite wrote: "Printers as well as translators are imperfect and subject to the same depravity as the rest of the world" (Foes of the KJB Refuted, p. 117). No uninspired human being is above possible correction.

Does their claimed superior scholarship mean that all other believers including Baptists should accept their Church of England doctrines? How is it consistent to think that the KJV translators believed incorrect doctrines and yet claim that they are the only men who may rightly interpret and translate God's Word? Do the KJV translators' acceptance of some false doctrines such as baptismal regeneration cancel the claims concerning their scholarship? If the Church of England translators of the KJV could be wrong in their doctrines, they could also be wrong in their interpreting and translating of God's Word. Considering the preconceptions and assumptions of the KJV translators in following their Church of England doctrines, it is illogical to suggest that they were unbiased. If these supposedly spiritually mature, intellectually "superior," and Spirit-guided men believed and taught some false doctrines, it is inconsistent and even unscriptural to suggest that they were somehow 100% perfect in translating.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
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Thanks, a sound view. As far as "tyranny of experts" lets back up and consider the concept. Often times the actual scholars do not claim perfection, but others point to "the experts" and claim their view is the only one allowed. Thus it is an effort to disenfranchise the views of others. It is a compel rather than persuade mindset. It is ungodly.
 

Yeshua1

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Does their claimed superior scholarship mean that all other believers including Baptists should accept their Church of England doctrines? How is it consistent to think that the KJV translators believed incorrect doctrines and yet claim that they are the only men who may rightly interpret and translate God's Word? Do the KJV translators' acceptance of some false doctrines such as baptismal regeneration cancel the claims concerning their scholarship? If the Church of England translators of the KJV could be wrong in their doctrines, they could also be wrong in their interpreting and translating of God's Word. Considering the preconceptions and assumptions of the KJV translators in following their Church of England doctrines, it is illogical to suggest that they were unbiased. If these supposedly spiritually mature, intellectually "superior," and Spirit-guided men believed and taught some false doctrines, it is inconsistent and even unscriptural to suggest that they were somehow 100% perfect in translating.


Excellent!

Couple of questions regarding this topic!

There has been GREAT advances made in the areas of lexicons/dictionaries/historical knowledge/cultural awareness since 1611, are we really to believe those men would not have benefited by having those improved tools to use in their efforts to get an accurate translation made/

Would they have benefited by more accurate revisions of their TR text?

And why is it the KJVO claim for them and their translation what NONE ofthem ever claimed for it... that they did NOT see either themselves or their version as final and perfect bible?
 

mactx

New Member
You know, when ever I hear "scholar" and Faith in the same discussion I am drawn to several scriptures.
Act 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.
Act 4:14 But seeing the man who was healed standing beside them, they had nothing to say in opposition.
Act 4:15 But when they had commanded them to leave the council, they conferred with one another,
Act 4:16 saying, "What shall we do with these men? For that a notable sign has been performed through them is evident to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it.
Act 4:17 But in order that it may spread no further among the people, let us warn them to speak no more to anyone in this name."
Act 4:18 So they called them and charged them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus.
Act 4:19 But Peter and John answered them, "Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge,
Act 4:20 for we cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard."
The gospel is a simple straight forward message given first to the uneducated because the "scholars" could not comprehend it. Saul was the first learned man among the church leaders, and his conversion was by no means easy on him.


Then
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
1Co 1:15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.
1Co 1:16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)
1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart."
1Co 1:20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,
1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,
1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 1:26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
1Co 1:27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong;
1Co 1:28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
1Co 1:29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
Wisdom as the world counts it is worthless. God's word is God's word. He did not give it to the wise but to the unlearned. Just because I can read and understand the Shakespearean style of language while it causes others to scratch their heads in wonder does not mean I am more worthy of salvation than one who can not read it. Nor am I more wise.

I have studied several translations. Most have the same core message, The semantics are different not the meaning of the passages. There are a few I will not recommend because the core message becomes muddied and open to interpretation.

That is not to say I do not like the KJV. I do. I use it along side my ESV, NIV and Amplified. (My 3 favorite translations but not the only 3 I own).

I have never understood the anger I have seen coming form those who demand that the only language version allowed is the KJV. Even though the KJV itself has undergone many changes, sometimes a correct translation was not possible. It is not MY place to tell another they can not be saved unless they use xyz Bible. GOD can use a new paper column to bring a lost sheep home if HE so chooses to.

As far as the demanding and arguing over it, I am convicted to leave the discussions with this.

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
3:8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.
3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
3:10 As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,
3:11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
Because arguing is not to be done among the saints. Calm loving discussion is fine, heated debate is not and some how this always ends in heated debate, at least as far as I have observed.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You know, when ever I hear "scholar" and Faith in the same discussion I am drawn to several scriptures.
The gospel is a simple straight forward message given first to the uneducated because the "scholars" could not comprehend it. Saul was the first learned man among the church leaders, and his conversion was by no means easy on him.


Then
Wisdom as the world counts it is worthless. God's word is God's word. He did not give it to the wise but to the unlearned. Just because I can read and understand the Shakespearean style of language while it causes others to scratch their heads in wonder does not mean I am more worthy of salvation than one who can not read it. Nor am I more wise.

I have studied several translations. Most have the same core message, The semantics are different not the meaning of the passages. There are a few I will not recommend because the core message becomes muddied and open to interpretation.

That is not to say I do not like the KJV. I do. I use it along side my ESV, NIV and Amplified. (My 3 favorite translations but not the only 3 I own).

I have never understood the anger I have seen coming form those who demand that the only language version allowed is the KJV. Even though the KJV itself has undergone many changes, sometimes a correct translation was not possible. It is not MY place to tell another they can not be saved unless they use xyz Bible. GOD can use a new paper column to bring a lost sheep home if HE so chooses to.

As far as the demanding and arguing over it, I am convicted to leave the discussions with this.

Because arguing is not to be done among the saints. Calm loving discussion is fine, heated debate is not and some how this always ends in heated debate, at least as far as I have observed.

You think that we argue, just imagine how it went down when paul tried to show Jewish believers gentiles were to get saved apart from keeping the law!
 

mactx

New Member
Yes I can imagine. However I also imagine the man of God calmly, not losing his temper (which I found irritates the sanctimonious more than anything) showing from the scripture where the "scholars" got it wrong.

The difference though is he was trying to teach unbelievers. Believers should never bicker among themselves.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yes I can imagine. However I also imagine the man of God calmly, not losing his temper (which I found irritates the sanctimonious more than anything) showing from the scripture where the "scholars" got it wrong.

The difference though is he was trying to teach unbelievers. Believers should never bicker among themselves.

think of it as being stimulating conversation, for i am sure peter/paul and John had some interesting discussions at times!
 

just-want-peace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Re: post #4, the following comes to mind:
1 "Some people are educated beyond their intelligence", &
2 The message is simple enough for common folk to grasp, while there can be/are deeper gems to be mined by deeper study.
However when these "deeper" gems negate, or weaken the basic message, then, IMHO, item #1 applies.
 

Oldtimer

New Member
Why the King James Version? - Written by Charles V. Turner, Ph.D.
The Preservation of the Bible By Faithful Churches
From Biblical Bible Translating by Charles V. Turner, Ph.D.
http://www.baptisttranslators.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=50

Quote from one section of the article referenced that includes the phrase "the tyranny of the experts."

Following Lachmann's lead, B.T. Westcott, and F.J.A. Hort produced their first textual critical edition of the Greek New Testament in 1881. It was based almost entirely upon the same presuppositions of Lachmann's textual criticism. These two men used most of Lachmann's rules of textual criticism and came up with a few of their own. They applied these rules to the Greek text of the New Testament as produced by Erasmus and came up with a different Greek New Testament based on the scholarship of Lachmann and that of their own. The point of departure had been made. No longer were the majority of manuscripts, preserved by faithful churches, the basis for recognizing the original reading. From now on, the learned professors would deliver the Christian world from their "ignorance" and by their expertise would deliver to the churches a purer text of the New Testament. Dr. Gresham Machen, the greatest Greek scholar and theologian in American history, called this kind of scholarship "the tyranny of the experts."

Similarly, Charles H. Spurgeon preached the same theme in a sermon entitled, "The Greatest Fight in the World." He said, "We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. Are these correctors of Scripture infallible? Are we now to believe that infallibility is with learned men? Now, Farmer Smith, when you have read your Bible, and have enjoyed its precious promises, you will have, to-morrow morning, to go down the street to ask the scholarly man at the parsonage whether this portion of the Scripture belongs to the inspired part of the Word, or whether it is of dubious authority. We shall gradually be so bedoubted and becriticized, that only a few of the most profound will know what is Bible, and what is not, and they will dictate to all the rest of us. I have no more faith in their mercy than in their accuracy: they will rob us of all that we hold most dear, and glory in the cruel deed. This same reign of terror we shall not endure, for we still believe that God revealeth himself rather to babes than to the wise and prudent, and we are fully assured that our own old English version of the Scriptures is sufficient for plain men for all purposes of life, salvation, and godliness. We do not despise learning, but we will never say of culture or criticism, "These be thy gods, O Israel!" Machen had it right and so did Spurgeon. Textual criticism by the "experts" is a horde of little popelings who by their assumed infallibility have the gall to tell us what is God's Word and what is not. Such is the tyranny of the experts.

After Westcott and Hort, the Pandora's box had been opened and all the evils of German rationalism began to tear at the Foundation of the Faith, the Holy Scriptures. This has continued until this day in both the higher and lower forms of textual criticism. Today the situation involves almost as many different texts of the Greek New Testament as there are scholars. Each scholar decides for himself what he will or will not accept as the Word of God. Consequently, each new edition of the Greek New Testament has led to a smaller and smaller New Testament. If Satan has his way, this would continue until all of the New Testament would cease to exist.

Anyone studying this issue, IMO, should read both sides of this debate. In this case, both sides can discuss "tyranny of experts". Please consider taking the time to read the entire article.

Closing with words from the Bible.

Amos 8: KJB
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Anyone studying this issue, IMO, should read both sides of this debate..

I have read both sides of this debate. I have read over 100 books by KJV-only authors and have checked out their claims.

I have likely read many more books for the KJV-only side than the
few books that answer the arguments for a KJV-only view.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why the King James Version? - Written by Charles V. Turner, Ph.D.
The Preservation of the Bible By Faithful Churches
From Biblical Bible Translating by Charles V. Turner, Ph.D.
http://www.baptisttranslators.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=50


Textual criticism by the "experts" is a horde of little popelings who by their assumed infallibility have the gall to tell us what is God's Word and what is not.

Thanks for providing a link to this article with the above quotation that in effect shows how KJV-only advocates do not apply their own assertions and reasoning consistently.

A different standard or different rules are evidently applied to the KJV translators than to other translators. Use of divers measures or weights can be seen in how the KJV-only side avoids applying the same standards to the KJV translators that they try to apply to other Bible translators and Bible text editors.

Do not KJV-only advocates in effect seem to have the gall to tell English-speaking believers that the word of God should in be bound and limited to the textual criticism decisions and translation decisions of one exclusive group of Church of England critics and scholars in 1611?

According to what consistent standard or principles is one exclusive group of scholars in 1611 selectively excluded from being those that some try to make them into "popelings" or infallible "experts"?

The KJV translators did not claim infalliblility for themselves, but it seems that some seek to give it to them.
 

Oldtimer

New Member
I have read both sides of this debate. I have read over 100 books by KJV-only authors and have checked out their claims.

I have likely read many more books for the KJV-only side than the
few books that answer the arguments for a KJV-only view.

Rick, didn't mean to imply that you, personally, hadn't read many books on this subject. Since I've read some of your works going back to the late 90's, it is apparent that you are well read. I apologize if my words implied otherwise.

My comment was/is for those who may be new to this controversy and would like to see opinions on both sides of the debate.
 

Oldtimer

New Member
Originally Posted by Oldtimer
Why the King James Version? - Written by Charles V. Turner, Ph.D.
http://www.baptisttranslators.com/in...d=51&Itemid=50

Textual criticism by the "experts" is a horde of little popelings who by their assumed infallibility have the gall to tell us what is God's Word and what is not.


Thanks for providing a link to this article with the above quotation that in effect shows how KJV-only advocates do not apply their own assertions and reasoning consistently.

A different standard or different rules are evidently applied to the KJV translators than to other translators. Use of divers measures or weights can be seen in how the KJV-only side avoids applying the same standards to the KJV translators that they try to apply to other Bible translators and Bible text editors.

Do not KJV-only advocates in effect seem to have the gall to tell English-speaking believers that the word of God should in be bound and limited to the textual criticism decisions and translation decisions of one exclusive group of Church of England critics and scholars in 1611?

According to what consistent standard or principles is one exclusive group of scholars in 1611 selectively excluded from being those that some try to make them into "popelings" or infallible "experts"?

The KJV translators did not claim infalliblility for themselves, but it seems that some seek to give it to them.

I find it quite revealing that of all the information contained in that article that you could choose to "debate" you chose that sentence. I read it, but didn't quote it, as there are more important aspects to consider than becoming caught up in the name calling that goes on with both sides of this issue. Should I quote some of the much more appalling name calling done, by those on the other side of this issue to keep everything in balance?

Doctor Turner, laid out, step by step, his position (opinion) regarding the underlying sources for the KJB vs those used by most who apply textual criticism of God's word.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Thanks for providing a link to this article with the above quotation that in effect shows how KJV-only advocates do not apply their own assertions and reasoning consistently.

A different standard or different rules are evidently applied to the KJV translators than to other translators. Use of divers measures or weights can be seen in how the KJV-only side avoids applying the same standards to the KJV translators that they try to apply to other Bible translators and Bible text editors.

Do not KJV-only advocates in effect seem to have the gall to tell English-speaking believers that the word of God should in be bound and limited to the textual criticism decisions and translation decisions of one exclusive group of Church of England critics and scholars in 1611?

According to what consistent standard or principles is one exclusive group of scholars in 1611 selectively excluded from being those that some try to make them into "popelings" or infallible "experts"?

The KJV translators did not claim infalliblility for themselves, but it seems that some seek to give it to them.

they hold to real circular reasoning, as hold that NO originals exist, in fact that God replaced those with the perfect KJV version, yet w/o the originals intact, how can they claim the translation off imperfect texts came out perfect/ Perfect as compared to what?
 

Oldtimer

New Member
they hold to real circular reasoning, as hold that NO originals exist, in fact that God replaced those with the perfect KJV version, yet w/o the originals intact, how can they claim the translation off imperfect texts came out perfect/ Perfect as compared to what?

Did you bother to read the linked article?
 

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I find it quite revealing that ...

You are aware,are you not,that C.H.S. quoted approvingly from the RV when it was likely that no one in his congregation had a copy?

Doctor Turner, laid out, step by step, his position (opinion) regarding the underlying sources for the KJB vs those used by most who apply textual criticism of God's word.

You are aware that Erasmus,Beza and others used textual criticism of sorts to arrive at a textual basis,do you not?
 

Oldtimer

New Member
You are aware,are you not,that C.H.S. quoted approvingly from the RV when it was likely that no one in his congregation had a copy?



You are aware that Erasmus,Beza and others used textual criticism of sorts to arrive at a textual basis,do you not?

That's the heart of this matter.
 

humblethinker

Active Member
Why the King James Version? - Written by Charles V. Turner, Ph.D.
The Preservation of the Bible By Faithful Churches
From Biblical Bible Translating by Charles V. Turner, Ph.D.
http://www.baptisttranslators.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=50
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On the article found at the link Turner says, "We have the many manuscripts that have been preserved by God through His faithful churches. It is a simple matter of reading them and finding what is the correct reading in the majority of the manuscripts."

Ummm... yeah... that sounds like a 'critical' approach...
So, which of the manuscripts is he talking about exactly? He should be specific, but he won't because vagaries, obfuscation, appeal to authority, reductionism, being selective, etc. is the best way to make his case.
 
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