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U.S. Nears 1,000th Execution Since 1977
- Thread starter bb_baptist
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KenH
Well-Known Member
Christ, writing through His apostle said the following:
Romans 13:4 (ESV)
for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.
Christ, writing through Luke, provided us with this:
Acts 25:11 (ESV)
If then I am a wrongdoer and have committed anything for which I deserve to die, I do not seek to escape death. But if there is nothing to their charges against me, no one can give me up to them. I appeal to Caesar."
KenH
Well-Known Member
It is unChristlike to oppose the general rule that Christ laid down in Genesis chapter 9. As God chooses to show to His grace in specific instances where the death penalty would be called for is His business and not for us to take such specific instances and generalize into a rule that God in His Word does not support.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
No, He did not. The Genesis passage was before the Law of Moses was given. </font>[/QUOTE]What? There is some rule in heaven that says Jesus can't change the requirements for execution because the Gen. passage is before the Law of Moses? You are limiting the authority of Christ. Surely you have misspoken.
It is unChristlike to seek or support the death of anyone.
peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
As God chooses to show to His grace in specific instances where the death penalty would be called for is His business and not for us to take such specific instances and generalize into a rule that God in His Word does not support. [/QB][/QUOTE]
You are wrong that His Word does not support it.
Christ Himself took the instance of showing mercy to Paul and specifically says in I Tim. 1:16 that His demonstration of perfect patience with Paul was for future believers. That changes it into a command that His followers must adhere to.
We are to have the same kind of perfect patience with the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul, that Jesus demonstrated with Paul.
Since Paul the murderer was not executed for his crimes, in order to have the same kind of perfect patience that Jesus demonstrated, the followers of Christ should not support the death penalty. We should seek these people with prayers and petitions (I Tim. 2:1+) which is pleasing to God our Savior.
It is unChristlike to seek or support the death of anyone.
peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
KenH
I adhere to the teachings of Christ and His apostles as found in His Holy Word. My own personal preference was to support the death penalty. After careful study, I have concluded it is unChristlike to do so. My preference has been transformed to conform to that of my Lord. I can do nothing less, and make no apology for it.
peace to you
I adhere to the teachings of Christ and His apostles as found in His Holy Word. My own personal preference was to support the death penalty. After careful study, I have concluded it is unChristlike to do so. My preference has been transformed to conform to that of my Lord. I can do nothing less, and make no apology for it.
peace to you
KenH
Well-Known Member
I also try to adhere to the teachings of Christ and His apostles(admitting that I fail quite often). I am convinced through studying His Word that my Lord's command in Genesis has not been changed by Him. Therefore, I believe that I am conforming to Him by supporting the death penalty for those who commit murder.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
KenH
I urge you to carefully read I Tim. 1:16+ with no preconceived notions. It is clear, perfect patience is the requirement for the followers of Christ.
And John 8, realizing the connection with Deut 17:7. It is clear, Jesus changes the requirements for execution. Only a sinless person can execute someone. Since only God is sinless, only God can execute.
It is unChristlike to seek or support the death of anyone.
peace to you
I urge you to carefully read I Tim. 1:16+ with no preconceived notions. It is clear, perfect patience is the requirement for the followers of Christ.
And John 8, realizing the connection with Deut 17:7. It is clear, Jesus changes the requirements for execution. Only a sinless person can execute someone. Since only God is sinless, only God can execute.
It is unChristlike to seek or support the death of anyone.
peace to you
KenH
Well-Known Member
I urge you to carefully read Genesis 9:5-6 with no preconceived notions except to be open to the leading of the Holy Spirit.
We are not discussing the Law of Moses. We are discussing God's commandment given before the Law of Moses and not to the Jews only. And that commandment, given to every human being, has never been changed.
We are not discussing the Law of Moses. We are discussing God's commandment given before the Law of Moses and not to the Jews only. And that commandment, given to every human being, has never been changed.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
KenH
Gen. 9 is one the passages that I have studied carefully. First of all, the context is not the establishment of a "law" or "command", such as you would find in Exodus 20. The context is the difference between animals and human beings. Animals are given for food, but human beings are made in the image of God, and should not be killed. The "shedding of blood" statement is given to emphasize the importance of human beings in the eyes of God.
The statement concerning the shedding of blood and the killing of the one who does so most closely represents the ancient near east custom of the "blood avenger". The near relative could seek a person's life, even for accidental deaths. It in no way represents the modern notion of a western penal system with trials and juries and witnesses and the like.
I have posted several times with the rest of my argument. Instead of repeating it, I guess you could just look through and find them.
It is unChristlike to seek or support the death of anyone.
peace to you
Gen. 9 is one the passages that I have studied carefully. First of all, the context is not the establishment of a "law" or "command", such as you would find in Exodus 20. The context is the difference between animals and human beings. Animals are given for food, but human beings are made in the image of God, and should not be killed. The "shedding of blood" statement is given to emphasize the importance of human beings in the eyes of God.
The statement concerning the shedding of blood and the killing of the one who does so most closely represents the ancient near east custom of the "blood avenger". The near relative could seek a person's life, even for accidental deaths. It in no way represents the modern notion of a western penal system with trials and juries and witnesses and the like.
I have posted several times with the rest of my argument. Instead of repeating it, I guess you could just look through and find them.
It is unChristlike to seek or support the death of anyone.
peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
KenH
I have supported my argument with scripture at every step. Those who disagree have stated that I am misusing scripture, or taking it out of context and the like, without addressing the scripture themselves.
I have yet to see someone who disagrees with me address I Tim. 1:16 and what follows. Perhaps instead of just saying "your wrong" you would care to address the text of I Tim. 1:16 and show me how I am wrong?
It is unChristlike to seek or support the death of anyone.
peace to you
I have supported my argument with scripture at every step. Those who disagree have stated that I am misusing scripture, or taking it out of context and the like, without addressing the scripture themselves.
I have yet to see someone who disagrees with me address I Tim. 1:16 and what follows. Perhaps instead of just saying "your wrong" you would care to address the text of I Tim. 1:16 and show me how I am wrong?
It is unChristlike to seek or support the death of anyone.
peace to you
KenH
Well-Known Member
Nothing in the Scriptures has changed what was stated in Genesis chapter 9.
Your personal belief is to be anti-death penalty. You are entitled to your personal belief.
To state that those who believe differently than you on this subject are exhibiting "unChristlike" behavior is simply beyond the pale.
Your personal belief is to be anti-death penalty. You are entitled to your personal belief.
To state that those who believe differently than you on this subject are exhibiting "unChristlike" behavior is simply beyond the pale.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Since you can't show me where I am wrong about Genesis chapter 9, why should I?
I have no problem with showing mercy to other folks. But a government is primarily charged with maintaining civil order, not showing mercy.
If you want to argue that a Christian should not have any involvement with the civil government, including not voting or sitting on a jury, then that is a different topic.
I have enjoyed the debate. Now I have a Dallas Stars hockey game to watch on TV.
Adios.
I have no problem with showing mercy to other folks. But a government is primarily charged with maintaining civil order, not showing mercy.
If you want to argue that a Christian should not have any involvement with the civil government, including not voting or sitting on a jury, then that is a different topic.
I have enjoyed the debate. Now I have a Dallas Stars hockey game to watch on TV.
Adios.