Ukraine War

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Trump has either delusions of grandeur or a Messiah complex. Possibly both.
Alienating your friends and sucking up to your enemies is not smart. Trump may think that Russia is an ocean away from the USA, but in fact the two are only separated by the Bering Strait.
Also, stand by for a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. If Xi Jinping thinks that America won't stand by her allies, then not only Taiwan but also South Korea, Japan and elsewhere in the region can be bullied, if not invaded.

No he is schmuck… an a distructive one at that! Some of the bullshit he tried to pull when he was operating in New York and New Jersey is historic and typical of his mania. There is no strategy, no subtlety, no action plan to right the ship…quite the contrary. I view him as a traitor to American democracy.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Trump is transparent to his own hurt. You criticize him because you don't know.

He is being transparent to everybody's hurt, especially to Ukraine, which country he professes to love.

BINGO! He's constantly non-stop trolling. This drives thin-skinned types mad.

Wonderful! What an ideal quality in a President!

 

[JonC]

I have no problem with Trump seeking to bring about peace between Ukraine and Russia - far from it! I think it might have been done with greater effect two years or so ago. But to throw Ukraine under a 'bus as he appears to be doing will not bring about peace, but subjection for the Ukrainians and encouragement for Putin to try his luck against Moldova and elsewhere. Also, if Russia gets its hands on all those rare minerals in Ukraine, you may be sure that the USA will not get hold of them.

But God remains in charge in all these things. 'Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for Him; do not fret because of him who prospers in his way, because of the man who brings wicked schemes to pass .......... I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a native green tree. Yet he passed away, and behold, he was no more. Indeed, I sought him, but he could not be found' (Psalm 37:7, 35-36).

I don't know the details of either (the conversation with Russia or Ukraine), so I can't say that it is a mistake.

I knew Trump would throw Zelenskyy "under the bus" when Zelenskyy threw Trump under the bus. I agree with you that's bad policy, but I have seen this in politics for decades, and with Trump knew it was coming.


Trump does have a point. The UK loaned Ukraine £2.26 billion. But the US sent over $69 billion to them. I agree with Trump that there should be some type of reimbursement when peace is achieved, and given the resources of Ukraine this would probably be in the form of mineral rights.


Russia is richer in minerals than Ukraine. I suspect they want Ukrainian minerals in order to monopolize (or come close) the market. Since Ukraine is unwilling to negotiate reimbursement (or partial reimbursement) I would not be shocked to see a deal with Russia.

It would have been in Ukraine's best interest to partner with (rather than simply take from) the US as this would have created a vested interest creating an obligation in terms of the US protecting that interest. If Russia and the Ukraine create this type of vested interest then that would secure a peace (aggression by either would necessitate US intervention). But who knows?

At this time we know that the US and Europe has completely failed when it comes to Ukraine and Russia. This has been going on since 2014 and "assistance" has proved a money trap that simply slowed down Ukraine's demise. Something needed to change.


I'm not saying Trump's plan, whatever it is, will work. I'm saying we know what we (the US and Europe) had been doing was not working.


Aa a Christian I know God is in control and that there will be wars. While we want world peace we know this will not happen in this present age.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

CEO Branding Expert:

"Could Trump Be Seeing What No One Else Will Admit? Ukraine Won’t Negotiate As Long As the Hundreds of Billions Flow!

Zelensky just set the price: $250 billion from Europe if the U.S. cuts off aid.

This is the reality Trump sees: The war has no off-ramp as long as Zelensky believes the money will keep flowing.

Turning off the faucet isn’t just about cost, it’s about leverage.

As long as the billions are guaranteed, there’s no reason to negotiate.

Some leaders become so entrenched in conflict that it defines them. Zelensky may not be able to see past the war at this point! He wouldn’t be the first leader to fall victim to this!

Ukraine’s fight is real, but at what price, and for how long? Europe says it wants this war to continue! Are they willing to keep paying for it?

If they say yes now, what happens when Zelensky asks for the next $250 billion?

One could argue Trump isn’t “siding with Russia,” he’s recognizing the cost and trying to force a shift.

The war won’t end unless the incentives change.

If this is the case why blame Trump for seeing what no one else wants to admit?"

x.com

x.com

Why even negate… forget Zelensky, Putin will have him shot and good riddance. The Ukraine is far better off without this con man. Most of their population now lives in Poland, the USA, Slovakia etc anyway. The USA should never have supported that crack pot Biden and his ridiculous proxy war…that just added to our own debt ledger.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ukraine didn’t start the war in the sense that they provoked the invasion. At the same time, Ukraine should have seen it coming. The only reason Ukraine has been denied entry into NATO for decades is because their government has been as corrupt as the day is long. Their leaders had a responsibility to their citizens after the dissolution of Soviet Union and they failed. Zelenskyy seems like a good guy and is doing the best he can but the people that came before him set him up for failure. I’m not faulting him for that.

Really?!? And all this time he has been accumulating wealth at our (the us taxpayers) expense. It’s time for him to fall on his sword.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The UK loaned Ukraine £2.26 billion.

UK support to Ukraine: factsheet

www.gov.uk

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

@Martin Marprelate, Trump, with his 'Messiah complex', is going to stop this stupid war that the U.S. had absolutely no business ever getting in volved in:

View attachment 10248

Yea, slap on another 100 pounds, a disheveled look including his messed up hair and add a ton of bronze face paint

 

[Rye]

Really?!? And all this time he has been accumulating wealth at our (the us taxpayers) expense. It’s time for him to fall on his sword.

Remember, Joe Biden was the president when the war started. There was no hesitation on his part to just give away our tax dollars for nothing in return. Of course Zelenskyy was going to take it. What foreign leader wouldn’t be happy with a deal like that?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Remember, Joe Biden was the president when the war started. There was no hesitation on his part to just give away our tax dollars for nothing in return. Of course Zelenskyy was going to take it. What foreign leader wouldn’t be happy with a deal like that?

I do remember…as I said, Biden is a crack pot and a thief. Remember the 10% cut commentary for the Big Guy comments that Hunter Biden sited. Ya want to audit someone, start with Brandon.

 

[JonC]

UK support to Ukraine: factsheet

www.gov.uk

I got the info from gov.uk, so take it with a grain of salt as well.

My point is what did that money (from the US and Europe) accomplish? Did it solve this decade long problem? Did it make peace? Did it put the Ukraine on grounds it can win a war with Russia?

The answer to all of those questions is a resounding "no".

What has actually been accomplished? Nothing.

I don't know if Trump can do any better than the UK. But he can't do any worse.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I got the info from gov.uk, so take it with a grain of salt as well.

My point is what did that money (from the US and Europe) accomplish? Did it solve this decade long problem? Did it make peace? Did it put the Ukraine on grounds it can win a war with Russia?

The answer to all of those questions is a resounding "no".

What has actually been accomplished? Nothing.

I don't know if Trump can do any better than the UK. But he can't do any worse.

What has been accomplished? Most of Ukraine is still free.
I am not opposed to negotiations, but Trump has given away their negotiating position. How long before he gives away the rest of Eastern Europe?
I'm not sure if this is behind a pay wall, but if not, it's worth a read.

Russia asked US for Nato withdrawal from eastern Europe, says Romania

Moscow’s demand during Riyadh talks rejected but allies fear Donald Trump could yet allow restoration of former Soviet bloc

www.ft.com

 

[JonC]

What has been accomplished? Most of Ukraine is still free.
I am not opposed to negotiations, but Trump has given away their negotiating position. How long before he gives away the rest of Eastern Europe?
I'm not sure if this is behind a pay wall, but if not, it's worth a read.

Russia asked US for Nato withdrawal from eastern Europe, says Romania

Moscow’s demand during Riyadh talks rejected but allies fear Donald Trump could yet allow restoration of former Soviet bloc

www.ft.com

So the only thing accomplished is a prolonged war. That is my point. Ukraine is not winning. They are just losing at a slower pace.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying we should allow Russia to take the county. I am saying that what the US and Europe has not paved a way to peace and a new approach needs to be taken - by Trump, by Europe, by the UK....whoever....but what we have been doing has only resulted in death (one estimate is approaching 2,000,000 deaths total).


BUT any US support needs to primarily be in the US interest (same with the support of other nations).

Today Zelenskyy has said he is working with the US. I hope the US can also involve Russia (without doing so cannot lead to a lasting peace). So we'll have to see what comes of the talks.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

So the only thing accomplished is a prolonged war. That is my point.

I do not believe that is the only thing that has been accomplished. Russia is massively depleted in both men and materials. Putin knows (or knew until Trump came along) that aggression against weaker countries does not go unpunished. Now he may well believe that he will gain by aggression.
Churchill said that, "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." And so it is proving. When Hitler's Germany invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938, the other Powers were not inclined to stop him. The British Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, said that "Czechoslovakia is a far-away country of which we know nothing." But Hitler had scarcely digested that country before he was gobbling up Poland. A firm stand earlier might have saved millions of lives - American as well as European.
After the war, NATO was set up to prevent such a tragedy happening again, and the USSR was stopped in its tracks and eventually collapsed. Now Trump wants to dump NATO. That won't keep America free from war! I can well understand his insistence that Europe make a more reasonable contribution to costs, and that will happen, I think. But woe betide us all if Russia and China think that the West is too soft to fight!

 

[Reynolds]

Ukraine is Europe's problem. Let Europe foot the defense bill.

 

[JonC]

I do not believe that is the only thing that has been accomplished. Russia is massively depleted in both men and materials. Putin knows (or knew until Trump came along) that aggression against weaker countries does not go unpunished. Now he may well believe that he will gain by aggression.
Churchill said that, "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." And so it is proving. When Hitler's Germany invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938, the other Powers were not inclined to stop him. The British Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, said that "Czechoslovakia is a far-away country of which we know nothing." But Hitler had scarcely digested that country before he was gobbling up Poland. A firm stand earlier might have saved millions of lives - American as well as European.
After the war, NATO was set up to prevent such a tragedy happening again, and the USSR was stopped in its tracks and eventually collapsed. Now Trump wants to dump NATO. That won't keep America free from war! I can well understand his insistence that Europe make a more reasonable contribution to costs, and that will happen, I think. But woe betide us all if Russia and China think that the West is too soft to fight!

Good point, but also a problem (and perhaps the reason for assistance given to Ukraine) is nations have been using Ukraine as a tool or pawn. I was speaking of any accomplishment towards peace and for Ukraine.

You are right that the war has weakened Russia. But it has at the expense of Ukraine (it weakened both countries). Both countries have suffered great loss. From what I've read Russia's casualties are a bit more than Ukraine's, but by percentage Ukraine has suffered a lot more (the population of Ukraine is almost 37 million while the population of Russia is almost 144 million). I am not sure that it is right to call using Ukraine to hurt Russia an accomplishment as I do not know that this is a moral act, but I understand the reasoning.

NATO was not set up to prevent Russia from taking Ukraine (or Georgia). NATO was set up for a more specific purpose. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm



I agree with dumping NATO and the UN. Each nation should support their allies, as this is in their interest. But I disagree that the interests of the member nations are necessarily served with the treaty. Part of this may be simoly the expense to the US vs benefits to the US (it may be different were we located in Europe or a lesser power).


For Americans we look at what it costs us (as we pay our taxes). The US GDP is
about $28 trillion. The next lower is Germany, with a GDP of about $4.5 trillion. The UK's GDP is about $3.4 trillion. NATO nations pay 2% of their GDP to the organization (the US and UK exceeded the required amount). This means the US pays more than Germany, the UK, Japan, France, Italy, Canada, and Spain combined. Over 15% of our annual budget goes to NATO. An additional $18 billion goes to the UN.


What the US needs to do is weigh the benefits of NATO and UN membership with the cost. The US can ditch NATO and still support our allies as long as it remains in our intrest.

 

[kyredneck]

Ukraine is Europe's problem. Let Europe foot the defense bill.

 

[kyredneck]

Trump was also talking about a huge aluminum producing plant in Ukraine, he clearly has his eyes on that.