Un-biblical Divorce and Biblical Forgiveness

[JonC]

On another thread (a closed thread….I was too late to respond "The Husband of One Wife?) @TCassidy summarized what is the most typical explanation I’ve seen regarding divorce:

Let's go back to the basics. A man is married and divorced before he is saved but his divorce is NOT for biblical reasons. After he is saved he is married again. But, according to God's standard for marriage, the man's first wife is still biblically married to him. When he marries again he now has two wives in the sight of God. A man with two wives is not qualified to be a pastor.

I have wondered about this, and don't really have any good answers. I suspect some of you have run into this before and would be interested in your insight.

I understand why the man would be considered to have multiple wives, but I'm wondering how this would be reconciled.

As an example - When Jesus told the woman at the well "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband'; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly." Jesus forgave the woman and told her to sin no more. If she does not return to her first husband (supposing he is still living) is she sinning? What of the other marriages (as Jesus makes the distinction between the five and the one that is not)? Where does the new life begin and the old one end?

 

[Revmitchell]

He did not tell her to go and sin no more. He told that to the adulterous woman in John 8. All of this still married to the other person and having multiple wives is nonsense. If the divorce was not biblical and then relations were had with the new wife then guess what. There is now adultery and there is biblical grounds for divorce. Obtaining a second spouse does not change the nature of that and leave someone married in perpetuity.

Second no where in scripture does it say someone is still married "in God's eyes" if the original marriage was not biblical. That is an assumption at best.

Third, there is no sin that is unforgivable. When it comes to serving in the ministry the necessary issue is where does the man stand on marriage and divorce now. What is in the past is behind him.

When we start imposing on scripture personal assumptions about how God sees things like re-marriage then we end up with all kinds of scenarios not given in scripture, assumed by us, that just looks like the Jerry Springer show.

The bottom line is when we hold past and repented sin against someone we can know we have bad theology.

 

[JonC]

He did not tell her to go and sin no more. He told that to the adulterous woman in John 8. All of this still married to the other person and having multiple wives is nonsense. If the divorce was not biblical and then relations were had with the new wife then guess what. There is now adultery and there is biblical grounds for divorce. Obtaining a second spouse does not change the nature of that and leave someone married in perpetuity.

Second no where in scripture does it say someone is still married "in God's eyes" if the original marriage was not biblical. That is an assumption at best.

Third, there is no sin that is unforgivable. When it comes to serving in the ministry the necessary issue is where does the man stand on marriage and divorce now. What is in the past is behind him.

When we start imposing on scripture personal assumptions about how God sees things like re-marriage then we end up with all kinds of scenarios not given in scripture, assumed by us, that just looks like the Jerry Springer show.

The bottom line is when we hold past and repented sin against someone we can know we have bad theology.

Yes, thanks for the correction. And I agree with your view here. It seems to me that some can reconcile Paul's persecutions of the Church with Christ's forgiveness, but had he been a divorced man remarried that would be a different story.

It seems to me that TC's view would have the woman as being married to 5 husbands and living with one who was not her husband. How, in this understanding, is this situation reconciled?

My question is specifically to that position because I do not believe we formulate such doctrines without impact on real life.I don't know how those who view this definition of divorce/marriage define what repentance would look like. Does the woman abandon her partner and go back to her 5th husband? Does she leave her 5th to be with her 4th? etc.

 

[Revmitchell]

I don't know how those who view this definition of divorce/marriage define what repentance would look like. Does the woman abandon her partner and go back to her 5th husband? Does she leave her 5th to be with her 4th? etc.

In this case the repentance comes from having, holding, and living the biblical mandate for marriage from this point on. Once the toothpaste is out of the tube there is no putting it back.

 

[HankD]

Those in this situation have another option -

Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

If a divorcee remains un-remarried and celibate - what's wrong with that?
But as Jesus said "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

I believe the underling premise of Paul's statements is that if a man could not resolve the issue(s) that led to his divorce how then does he qualify as one with leadership in the church.

But (there is always a "but") what then of a man who is abandoned by his wife and consequently divorced.
Celibacy can result in other issues.

Therefore he should probably step down from the office of pastor/deacon as the best decision.

Look at the discussion this has generated here and other forums, it will be the same in church circles if he remains a pastor.

Teacher - seems OK.

HankD

 

[JonC]

Those in this situation have another option -

Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

If a divorcee remains un-remarried and celibate - what's wrong with that?
But as Jesus said "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

I believe the underling premise of Paul's statements is that if a man could not resolve the issue(s) that led to his divorce how then does he qualify as one with leadership in the church.

But (there is always a "but") what then of a man who is abandoned by his wife and consequently divorced.
Celibacy can result in other issues.

Therefore he should probably step down from the office of pastor/deacon as the best decision.

Look at the discussion this has generated here and other forums, it will be the same in church circles if he remains a pastor.

Teacher - seems OK.

HankD

My father was divorced (he divorced his first wife for biblical reasons). He married my mother. He was a godly man and a good father who served often in the church as needed. He would not be a deacon because of His divorce.

Regardless of what he should have done when he divorced his wife, should he have abandoned us as an act of repentance for remarriage?

 

[HankD]

My father was divorced (he divorced his first wife for biblical reasons). He married my mother. He was a godly man and a good father who served often in the church as needed. He would not be a deacon because of His divorce.

Regardless of what he should have done when he divorced his wife, should he have abandoned us as an act of repentance for remarriage?

I also am from a divorced family situation.

Abandoned? No, lived apart from and supported you was a possible option.

In my own own situation, my mother remarried because she had me to support and also felt I needed a male "role model" in my life.

All kinds of scenarios can be developed around a divorce type situation.

"Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

HankD

 

[Revmitchell]

If a divorcee remains un-remarried and celibate - what's wrong with that?
But as Jesus said "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

If it is a sin to re-marry because of an un-biblical divorce then it must also be true that so long as you are unbiblically divorced you are still living in sin whether you are re-married or not. The sin is un biblical divorce and that has not changed by staying single. The only way to repent is to go back to the wife and maintain a biblical marriage. Simply staying single does not resolve the sin. I disagree with all of that but if re-marriage is a sin then one must hold to what I just proposed as well to be consistent.

 

[Yeshua1]

My father was divorced (he divorced his first wife for biblical reasons). He married my mother. He was a godly man and a good father who served often in the church as needed. He would not be a deacon because of His divorce.

Regardless of what he should have done when he divorced his wife, should he have abandoned us as an act of repentance for remarriage?

Some questions that I would have here are, Does the prohibition against divorce and being a pastor mean that counts from salvation forward, or God holds you not to be able pastor if divorced when not even saved, but have a godly marriage now with your wife of now since being saved?
And in your described situation, God still allows for one to pastor and lead as elder having a "biblical divorce" correct?
And that prohibition of paul was addressing more that one could not have multiply wives as was customary of the time, and not really addressing being divorced/remarried etc?

 

[HankD]

If it is a sin to re-marry because of an un-biblical divorce then it must also be true that so long as you are unbiblically divorced you are still living in sin whether you are re-married or not. The sin is un biblical divorce and that has not changed by staying single. The only way to repent is to go back to the wife and maintain a biblical marriage. Simply staying single does not resolve the sin. I disagree with all of that but if re-marriage is a sin then one must hold to what I just proposed as well to be consistent.

I disagree. To divorce and remarry in the strictest legal sense is to commit adultery NOT just to divorce, the remarrying is the sin.

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Mark 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

Mark 10:12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

My opinion:
The best thing is to own up, confess and do as the LORD leads:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

It seems to me that TC's view would have the woman as being married to 5 husbands and living with one who was not her husband. How, in this understanding, is this situation reconciled?

It seems pretty simple to me. Her first husband divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the second guy. He divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the third guy. And the third guy divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the fourth guy. And the fourth guy divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the fifth guy.

 

[Revmitchell]

I disagree. To divorce and remarry in the strictest legal sense is to commit adultery NOT just to divorce, the remarrying is the sin.

There has to be a standing position prior to the remarrying in order for it to be adultery. That standing position is that you are married. If you are married but living like you are single that is also a sin. There is more to this issue than just sex. There is more to being faithful to your spouse than just sex. Therefore, being married but living single is also a sin.

 

[JonC]

It seems pretty simple to me. Her first husband divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the second guy. He divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the third guy. And the third guy divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the fourth guy. And the fourth guy divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the fifth guy.

My question is how divorce is reconciled in terms of repentance.

To simplify the illustration - A man is divorced (for unbiblical reasons), marries a woman and has a family. Does repentance necessitate abandoning his family and reuniting with his first wife?

It seems that if it does not then many would consider him as living in sin (an invalid marriage with children out of wedlock).

 

[TCassidy]

To simplify the illustration - A man is divorced (for unbiblical reasons), marries a woman and has a family. Does repentance necessitate abandoning his family and reuniting with his first wife?

No, of course not. He repents and is forgiven. But the consequences remain. He may still have children by that first marriage. And more children by his second wife. They don't just disappear when he repents. Consequences remain. Including the consequences of being disqualified for the pastorate.

 

[HankD]

There has to be a standing position prior to the remarrying in order for it to be adultery. That standing position is that you are married. If you are married but living like you are single that is also a sin. There is more to this issue than just sex. There is more to being faithful to your spouse than just sex. Therefore, being married but living single is also a sin.

There has to be a standing position prior to the remarrying in order for it to be adultery. That standing position is that you are married. If you are married but living like you are single that is also a sin. There is more to this issue than just sex. There is more to being faithful to your spouse than just sex. Therefore, being married but living single is also a sin.

Hmm, do you have scripture to support your "Therefore, being married but living single is also a sin"?

HankD

 

[McCree79]

It seems pretty simple to me. Her first husband divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the second guy. He divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the third guy. And the third guy divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the fourth guy. And the fourth guy divorced her (biblically) when she took up with the fifth guy.

The OP and your reply would allow for this sitiation. If said future pastor has an affair, his wife biblically divorced him. He no has zero wives. He remarried. No he has one wife. So he would be fit for pastor? Assuming he is in full repentance from prior sin. After all, the divorce was biblical

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[Reformed]

Some sins can never be made right and they come with their own set of consequences.


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[Yeshua1]

The OP and your reply would allow for this sitiation. If said future pastor has an affair, his wife biblically divorced him. He no has zero wives. He remarried. No he has one wife. So he would be fit for pastor? Assuming he is in full repentance from prior sin. After all, the divorce was biblical

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If the pastor had a wife who fooled around and she divorced him, he can by the scriptures remarrying again a fellow christian, and still pastor, correct?

 

[McCree79]

If the pastor had a wife who fooled around and she divorced him, he can by the scriptures remarrying again a fellow christian, and still pastor, correct?

I would certainly accept that. I believe that is in agreement with Scripture.


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[Yeshua1]

I would certainly accept that. I believe that is in agreement with Scripture.


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I would certainly accept that. I believe that is in agreement with Scripture.


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I base that upon Paul stating to us that adultery is a ground in the eyes of God to have the marriage covenant relationship terminated. NOT required, as restoration can still be done, but is allowed...