unaccredited degrees... whats the point?

[revmwc]

The degree does do something for you. You gained knowledge and earned a degree from an Institution. The quality of that institution is not based upon accreditation, but based upon the institution itself.

Thus, to say that a government organization is the final say on whether an institution is quality or not is fallacious.

Rather, there is more freedom in non-accredited schools. In undergraduate, my school had to change their creation course into an apologetics class from science. So, there are limitations

I have never heard of one church refusing to talk to a person because of accreditation. I have heard of people refusing for belonging to a seminary that they disagree with or not a part of their denomination.

Did you get any credit for orientation? If so what did the orientation consist of and how many hours creited?

 

[Ruiz]

Rev

For the record, I went to accredited schools. In my school there were two options for orientation, one for credit or without. I chose the non-credit route but I think you got the credit by doing a one or two page paper.

Today, I think everyone has to go through orientation for credit.

 

[StefanM]

2 course hours for let me what the term was, orientation. All schools give credit for orientation don't they? The orientation consisted of reading throguh the catalog and answering the questions. What was your orientation like and how many hours did you get for it?

My orientation was a non-credit orientation. We had a couple days before the term started during which we had to attend orientation sessions.

The university where I am on staff does non-credit orientations. We do have an introductory education course that all students must take, but it deals with education, study skills, etc. It meets like a standard class and has several papers and other projects to complete.

 

[revmwc]

Rev

For the record, I went to accredited schools. In my school there were two options for orientation, one for credit or without. I chose the non-credit route but I think you got the credit by doing a one or two page paper.

Today, I think everyone has to go through orientation for credit.

Mine was 2 hours for reading through the catalog and answering questions, received two course hours for the orientation.

 

[StefanM]

I would be 3 or 4 years getting a degree from one of these and I haven't the desire nor the time I want to spend the money on for that since I do have a good paying job I have no need for taht type of degree.

I don't mean any disrespect with this question, but it does come up.

Are you stating that you don't want to devote the time necessary to getting the degree?

If that is the case, that is fine, but if an unaccredited degree can be obtained in the time in which an accredited one cannot be obtained, it is a clear indication that the unaccredited degree is not comparable to the accredited one.

That is the issue most have with unaccredited degrees.

 

[StefanM]

Whitefield is very well respected within the Reformed community. Learning is learning regardless of what a man made institution thinks. I know of 2 pastors that attended Whitefield and they both came out with a very strong understanding of the Holy Scriptures and Theology.

Whitefield may be respected in some circles, but I do think that some of their credentials are a bit questionable. They have a "Doctor of Arts in Religion" degree that does not even require a dissertation. The PhD from there does require one, however.

The deal with R.C. Sproul is that his standing is not determined by the degree. I've heard it said before that Whitefield needed him more than he needed Whitefield. I agree with that statement.

 

[StefanM]

Someone of RC Sproul's status doesn't need to get caught up in our accredited and unaccredited squabbles.

An accredited degree, as good as it is, does not make a person.

That is why I wonder why he chose Whitefield. That credential didn't add one bit to his credibility. He already had enough.

 

[StefanM]

The degree does do something for you. You gained knowledge and earned a degree from an Institution. The quality of that institution is not based upon accreditation, but based upon the institution itself.

Thus, to say that a government organization is the final say on whether an institution is quality or not is fallacious.

Rather, there is more freedom in non-accredited schools. In undergraduate, my school had to change their creation course into an apologetics class from science. So, there are limitations

I have never heard of one church refusing to talk to a person because of accreditation. I have heard of people refusing for belonging to a seminary that they disagree with or not a part of their denomination.

I messed up the quotation markers. That was actually not from me; it was from revmwc.

There are some unaccredited schools that are legitimate. My pastor, for instance, has an unaccredited bachelors that he used for admission to a regionally-accredited seminary, where he earned his MDiv and PhD. I don't doubt his undergraduate preparation.

I do question, however, the utility of many unaccredited degrees. I also have a major problem with schools offering ridiculous credentials, like PhD degrees when no one on faculty has a doctorate except from the unaccredited school itself.

IMO, ministry training schools should take the form of a certificate or diploma program. You could learn a lot without the negatives of an unaccredited degree.

 

[PreacherBoi]

3 Years!

I worked on the degree: Doctor of Biblical Counseling with ATS for 3 years! I plan to finish my Th.D. with ATS alot sooner!:sleeping_2:

 

[Siberian]

I also have a major problem with schools offering ridiculous credentials, like PhD degrees when no one on faculty has a doctorate except from the unaccredited school itself.

There is no justification for this practice, and it is rampant in unaccredited institutions in Christian-circles. I think it is mostly an idolatry-driven clamoring after titles and respect.

 

[StefanM]

There is no justification for this practice, and it is rampant in unaccredited institutions in Christian-circles. I think it is mostly an idolatry-driven clamoring after titles and respect.

I agree. Bogus credentials are not about "training."

 

[michaelbowe]

First, you are missing a bit here.

DETC is held in way higher regard than TRACS. The majority of regionally accredited universities will take some transfer credits from DETC, and will also allow entrance into their Grad programs with an Undergrad from DETC. This is not true of TRACS. TRACS is the "bottom of the barrel" in terms of legitimate accreditation. Nevertheless, it is legitimate.

Second, ATS is no longer the "Gold Standard." Now, if you meant "Regionally accredited TOGETHER WITH ATS" is the gold standard, then I would agree with you. However, lack of ATS accreditation will not keep you out of any program that I know, if the degree is RA. On the other hand, ATS only (and there are some) degrees, will absolutely keep you out of some Universities and jobs.

RA is the Gold Standard. ATS is a nice addition, that is quickly going the way of the dinosaurs...

You are correct, but I forgot DETC. However, I still believe ATS is the gold standard. I graduated from Liberty that does not hold ATS, and many question it.

 

[revmwc]

I don't mean any disrespect with this question, but it does come up.

Are you stating that you don't want to devote the time necessary to getting the degree?

If that is the case, that is fine, but if an unaccredited degree can be obtained in the time in which an accredited one cannot be obtained, it is a clear indication that the unaccredited degree is not comparable to the accredited one.

That is the issue most have with unaccredited degrees.

No I am saying I have devoted enough time to classes and time to obtain a degree, but I would have to do all the work a second time to get degree from a school accredited by the state to have a real degree as you describe. The same work same courses everything all over again and a degree in a field I might not have even trained in.

 

[michaelbowe]

I worked on the degree: Doctor of Biblical Counseling with ATS for 3 years! I plan to finish my Th.D. with ATS alot sooner!:sleeping_2:

A doctorate in three years is very short.

 

[michaelbowe]

I messed up the quotation markers. That was actually not from me; it was from revmwc.

There are some unaccredited schools that are legitimate. My pastor, for instance, has an unaccredited bachelors that he used for admission to a regionally-accredited seminary, where he earned his MDiv and PhD. I don't doubt his undergraduate preparation.

I do question, however, the utility of many unaccredited degrees. I also have a major problem with schools offering ridiculous credentials, like PhD degrees when no one on faculty has a doctorate except from the unaccredited school itself.

IMO, ministry training schools should take the form of a certificate or diploma program. You could learn a lot without the negatives of an unaccredited degree.

I agree with the last part of this quotation. It seems unaccredited institutions make great CE setups, or certificate programs. However, the "degree" status makes it questionable.

 

[TCGreek]

That is why I wonder why he chose Whitefield. That credential didn't add one bit to his credibility. He already had enough.

Yeah, leaves one to wonder.

 

[TCGreek]

There is no justification for this practice, and it is rampant in unaccredited institutions in Christian-circles. I think it is mostly an idolatry-driven clamoring after titles and respect.

Agreed, something is wrong with that picture. But recently I've heard Dr. Al Mohler, president of Southern seminary, say that churches should be the primary trainers of people entering ministry and seminary should only come along side the local churches. This is his vision.

With that said, matters of government accreditation becomes rather interesting.

 

[revmwc]

Agreed, something is wrong with that picture. But recently I've heard Dr. Al Mohler, presider of Southern seminary, say that churches should be the primary trainers of people entering ministry and seminary should only come along sides the local churches. This is his vision.

With that said, matters of government accreditation becomes rather interesting.

But government accredidation is required for many public school teachers, and public institutions you may want to work at. Of course MD's nad Lawyers have to go to accredited.

 

[TCGreek]

But government accredidation is required for many public school teachers, and public institutions you may want to work at. Of course MD's nad Lawyers have to go to accredited.

Doesn't the church have a say in all this?

 

[PreacherBoi]

Ha!

Al Mohler's vision is to spread the message of Calvinism til it completely takes over the SBC!!!!:thumbs: