Unapologetic Dispensational Truths - Is the KJV Required For Us to Believe It.

[JD731]

Here is my definitions of dispensational:

1) Exemption from a rule or usual requirement. - i.e. Dietary laws in Acts 10.
2) A system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time. - i.e. the Mosaic system over Israel
3 In Theology, a divinely ordained order prevailing at a particular period of history
Dispensation is an act of Divine providence. Providence rather than sovereignty because the subjects can disobey and function outside of the Divine will.

Is the plethora of new English translations in 150 years at the end of the present dispensation the tool of Satan to deceive the church and cast them into darkness, knowing he has but a short time left to deceive?

This topic will fit under this heading , (dispensation) or under "Bible Translations," (KJV). I chose the doctrinal group.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Here is my definitions of dispensational:

1) Exemption from a rule or usual requirement. - i.e. Dietary laws in Acts 10.
2) A system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time. - i.e. the Mosaic system over Israel
3 In Theology, a divinely ordained order prevailing at a particular period of history
Dispensation is an act of Divine providence. Providence rather than sovereignty because the subjects can disobey and function outside of the Divine will.

Is the plethora of new English translations in 150 years at the end of the present dispensation the tool of Satan to deceive the church and cast them into darkness, knowing he has but a short time left to deceive?

This topic will fit under this heading , (dispensation) or under "Bible Translations," (KJV). I chose the doctrinal group.

To me, who has been an avid dispensationalist since I was a teenager

what I see is history. Lets take history. and put it in a form that is easy to see. to seperate different period. and put them in Bullet form

ie.

Period A
subpoints of period A
Period B
Subpoints of period B
etc etc etc.

The church age would be one of these periods. and have its own subpoints.
\
now while there are varying view in the system as to what subpoints are. and what they mean. it does not mean these views agree. some are at odds (Example. Israel was saved by law. and will return to law in the future tribulation period)

this is not found in scripture. and we should not reject dispensational teaching because of this small group that adds this to the teaching.

I do not think the KJV had anything to do with it. I think it had to do with people looking at history and comming up with a way to seperate histroy with its differences in a way that is easy to understand

 

[JesusFan]

Here is my definitions of dispensational:

1) Exemption from a rule or usual requirement. - i.e. Dietary laws in Acts 10.
2) A system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time. - i.e. the Mosaic system over Israel
3 In Theology, a divinely ordained order prevailing at a particular period of history
Dispensation is an act of Divine providence. Providence rather than sovereignty because the subjects can disobey and function outside of the Divine will.

Is the plethora of new English translations in 150 years at the end of the present dispensation the tool of Satan to deceive the church and cast them into darkness, knowing he has but a short time left to deceive?

This topic will fit under this heading , (dispensation) or under "Bible Translations," (KJV). I chose the doctrinal group.

No the modern versions are tools of the Holy Spirit to get out into any nations and tribes the good news of Jesus before His returning?

 

[JD731]

To me, who has been an avid dispensationalist since I was a teenager

what I see is history. Lets take history. and put it in a form that is easy to see. to seperate different period. and put them in Bullet form

ie.

Period A
subpoints of period A
Period B
Subpoints of period B
etc etc etc.

I call adjustments within dispensations by the term - "transitions). Gen 15 where Jesus begins to be identified by the title "the word of the LORD" and by the name of Adonay Jehovah (Lord GOD) as opposed previously as Jehovah Elohym (LORD God). He is prominent under this title in all the prophetic scriptures and appears in the NT under this title 13 times. See Psa 110:1

The church age would be one of these periods. and have its own subpoints.
\
now while there are varying view in the system as to what subpoints are. and what they mean. it does not mean these views agree. some are at odds (Example. Israel was saved by law. and will return to law in the future tribulation period)

this is not found in scripture. and we should not reject dispensational teaching because of this small group that adds this to the teaching.

I do not think the KJV had anything to do with it. I think it had to do with people looking at history and comming up with a way to seperate histroy with its differences in a way that is easy to understand

Good points

 

[JD731]

No the modern versions are tools of the Holy Spirit to get out into any nations and tribes the good news of Jesus before His returning?

Most, maybe even you, miss the reason for his return. The new Bibles do nothing but worsen the problem.

 

[JesusFan]

Most, maybe even you, miss the reason for his return.

Why is He returning then?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I call adjustments within dispensations by the term - "transitions). Gen 15 where Jesus begins to be identified by the title "the word of the LORD" and by the name of Adonay Jehovah (Lord GOD) as opposed previously as Jehovah Elohym (LORD God). He is prominent under this title in all the prophetic scriptures and appears in the NT under this title 13 times. See Psa 110:1

Good points

as I said, not everyone sees the same, I would probably agree with this. would have to do more research

 

[JD731]

Why is He returning then?

He is returning with the church and the heavenly host to inaugurate his kingdom reign over the earth while purging out all remaining unbelievers.

Psa 115:15 Ye are blessed of the Lord which made heaven and earth.

16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.
18 But we will bless the Lord from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the Lord.

 

[JesusFan]

He is returning with the church and the heavenly host to inaugurate his kingdom reign over the earth while purging out all remaining unbelievers.

Psa 115:15 Ye are blessed of the Lord which made heaven and earth.

16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.
18 But we will bless the Lord from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the Lord.

Why would that have anything to do with what translations one chooses to use them?

 

[JD731]

Why would that have anything to do with what translations one chooses to use them?

Is that what you have learned from your favorite translation? Answer that question and I might be better equipped to answer yours.

 

[Darrell C]

Is the plethora of new English translations in 150 years at the end of the present dispensation the tool of Satan to deceive the church and cast them into darkness, knowing he has but a short time left to deceive?

My answer would be no. There are a few reasons why we have new translations, but one of them isn't Satan actively participating in the spread of the Word of God, no matter how bungled some may view the various translations. Think about it: if you living in a foreign country, and someone was publishing literature that vilified you, would you participate in how it was structured? Would changing how a few things are worded change the literature enough that an entirely message and result occurs?

Probably not.

For the Bible Student, if you are not going to the source of all of the translations, you are doing yourself a disservice. If you are not familiarizing yourself with the culture that existed then, ditto.

I'd venture a guess that most translation are a result of the zealous efforts of scholars who have a sincere desire to make the Word of God more understandable to the layperson.

So, one question I would ask would be, what have you found in a translation that you think is used by Satan to deceive believers? I know there are changes made, bust as a whole, does any translation lack sufficient Christ-glorifying statements that equate to God not being able to use that translation to lead men to salvation? I do not believe such a translation exists. Does the perceived lack/change of one verse cancel out the hundreds of others that still explain how men are saved?

One question I would ask KJVonly believers is this: explain Hebrews 10:14. Just explain that from the context of the KJV (which is my preferred translation).

God bless.

 

[Logos1560]

John Meade and Peter Gurry asserted: “The most striking feature of the period before the King James Version is the sheer number of translations” (Scribes, p. 201). John Meade and Peter Gurry observed: “Today’s abundance of translations is more a return to life before 1611 than an innovation” (p. 191).

 

[JD731]

John Meade and Peter Gurry asserted: “The most striking feature of the period before the King James Version is the sheer number of translations” (Scribes, p. 201). John Meade and Peter Gurry observed: “Today’s abundance of translations is more a return to life before 1611 than an innovation” (p. 191).

Who can really argue with John Meade and Peter Gurry?

 

[JD731]

My answer would be no. There are a few reasons why we have new translations, but one of them isn't Satan actively participating in the spread of the Word of God, no matter how bungled some may view the various translations. Think about it: if you living in a foreign country, and someone was publishing literature that vilified you, would you participate in how it was structured? Would changing how a few things are worded change the literature enough that an entirely message and result occurs?

It is not how it is worded, it is the words themselves. Have you noticed? No one believes the words any more.

Probably not.

For the Bible Student, if you are not going to the source of all of the translations, you are doing yourself a disservice. If you are not familiarizing yourself with the culture that existed then, ditto.

The NT was written in Greek but the typology is from the Hebrew culture because Jesus said, "salvation is of the Jews."

I'd venture a guess that most translation are a result of the zealous efforts of scholars who have a sincere desire to make the Word of God more understandable to the layperson.

Well, they have failed miserably. Do you know of two people on this forum who agrees on anything?

So, one question I would ask would be, what have you found in a translation that you think is used by Satan to deceive believers? I know there are changes made, bust as a whole, does any translation lack sufficient Christ-glorifying statements that equate to God not being able to use that translation to lead men to salvation? I do not believe such a translation exists. Does the perceived lack/change of one verse cancel out the hundreds of others that still explain how men are saved?

It is not about the intellect so much as the emotion. There is a lack of love for the scriptures and religious men seek out the scholars to study rather than the scriptures and become guilty of the sin addressed by Paul in1 Cor 1-4. The warning for the last days is heaped up teachers, having itching ears; 2 Tim 4:1-5. This surely means they are not saying the same things.

The apostles and prophets remain the authority rather than modern scholars. They wrote the scriptures and God has preserved them. If you don't believe me then I respect your right to follow your own conscience.

One question I would ask KJVonly believers is this: explain Hebrews 10:14. Just explain that from the context of the KJV (which is my preferred translation).

God bless.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Sanctification has a two pronged application and is true of all believers with the second prong depending on the first.

1) God sanctifies the believer in Christ by his being immersed into the body of Christ by his Spirit when we believe.
2) This is an automatic calling of said believer to sanctify himself

There is no greater scripture to capsulize this Bible teaching than here. Check it out;

1Co 1:1 ¶ Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, 1) to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, 2) called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs (gentiles) and ours (Jews):

How can we sanctify ourself?

5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. The very next verse in this context reveals the problem of all these Bibles with different words.

10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Some will be called upon to explain themselves concerning disregarding his plain instruction in the day of Christ.

 

[Logos1560]

It is not how it is worded, it is the words themselves. Have you noticed? No one believes the words any more.

Do you show that you believe the preserved original-language words of Scripture?

Do you show that you believe soundly the words of the KJV when the KJV itself does not actually state and teach your human KJV-only opinions that you try to read into it?

Your present KJV edition does not have all the same words as the 1611 edition. Over 180 whole English words not found in the original 1611 edition have been added in a typical post-1900 KJV edition.

Your human KJV-only opinions cause divisions in the body of Christ.

 

[KJB1611reader]

Do you show that you believe the preserved original-language words of Scripture?

Do you show that you believe soundly the words of the KJV when the KJV itself does not actually state and teach your human KJV-only opinions that you try to read into it?

Your present KJV edition does not have all the same words as the 1611 edition. Over 180 whole English words not found in the original 1611 edition have been added in a typical post-1900 KJV edition.

Your human KJV-only opinions cause divisions in the body of Christ.

180 words, interesting. Please provide evidence.

Shawn

 

[KJB1611reader]

Dispenzatioal salvation is real, but one can be saved without believing it.

 

[Logos1560]

180 words, interesting. Please provide evidence.

Shawn

From the comparisons in my book Today's KJV and 1611 Compared, it can be found that there would be over 190 whole words not found in the 1611 edition that would be added to it in a typical post-1900 KJV edition. The words are also listed on pages 174-175 in KJV defender Laurence Vance's 2025 book The Text of the King James Bible.

The OT added words to the 1611 edition include the following: also (Gen. 19:21), the (Gen. 22:7), the (Gen. 36:14), the (Exod. 1:15), for them (Exod. 15:25), of silver (Exod. 21:32), curtains (Exod. 26:8); the (Exod. 34:25), his boards (Exod. 35:11), of (Lev. 7:2), the (Lev. 11:3), of (Lev. 14:54), the (Lev. 18:3), unto you (Lev. 19:34), surely (Lev. 20:11), by me (Lev. 26:23), their iniquity and (Lev. 26:40), of the weight (Num. 7:31), of the weight (Num. 7:55), among (Num. 9:33), of (Num. 20:5), ye (Deut. 4:25), the (Deut. 4:32), all (Deut. 5:29), the (Deut. 9:10), the (Deut. 20:7), thy God (Deut. 26:1), the (Josh. 3:10), even (Josh. 11:17), even (Josh. 12:2), the (Josh. 12:6), the children of (Josh. 13:29), of, of, of (Jud. 1:31), to (1 Sam. 12:7), had (1 Sam. 18:1), and went (1 Sam. 18:27), the (1 Sam. 25:16), to (1 Sam. 30:29), He (2 Sam. 4:4), me (2 Sam. 16:12), king (1 Kings 9:11), him (1 Kings 13:6), of (1 Kings 15:29), to (1 Kings 16:19), him (2 Kings 8:19), of the LORD (2 Kings 11:10), all (2 Kings 20:13), and (1 Chron. 2:18), and (1 Chron. 6:60), valiant (1 Chron. 7:5), the (1 Chron. 26:30), and (1 Chron. 29:2), the (2 Chron. 8:16), king (2 Chron. 12:2), they (2 Chron. 29:23), And (2 Chron. 32:20), the men (Ezra 4:11), the (Ezra 7:18), of (Ezra 8:21), my (Neh. 2:12), the (Neh. 4:14), of (Neh. 7:59), so (Esther 1:8), Yea (Job 33:22), or (Job 41:5), and (Ps. 62:10), the (Ps. 99:2), and (Ps. 107:19), and (Ps. 113:9), hath (Ps. 115:3), her (Prov. 7:21), all (Eccl. 2:16), yet he shall not find it (Eccl. 8:17), as (S. S. 6:5), as (Isa. 5:24), of (Isa. 10:26), But (Isa. 34:11), the (Isa. 49:13), I (Isa. 51:16), thee (Isa. 57:8), them (Jer. 12:15), as (Jer. 26:18), my (Jer. 31:14), for (Jer. 31:18), the (Jer. 35:13), Zedekiah (Jer. 38:16), there (Jer. 42:16), and (Jer. 49:19), do (Jer. 50:29), the children of (Ezek. 3:11), and (Ezek. 7:23), in (Ezek. 10:2), a (Ezek. 11:24), all (Ezek. 12:19), and (Ezek. 26:9), the flock (Ezek. 34:31), side (Ezek. 48:2), us (Dan. 1:12), burning (Dan. 3:15), he (Amos 1:11), I (Mal. 2:2), ye (Mal. 4:2).

The NT added words to the 1611 edition are as follows: he (Matt. 3:12), hand (Matt. 6:3), him (Matt. 8:25), not (Matt. 12:23), the (Matt. 16:16), and (Matt. 16:19), the (Matt. 27:52), the (Mark 2:4), all (Luke 1:3), had (Luke 8:8), of (Luke 9:55), and (Luke 17:34), and said (John 7:16), I (John 15:4), but (John 16:25), and (Acts 2:22), the (Acts 5:34), they (Acts 15:34), the (Acts 18:5), in (Acts 24:14), we (Acts 27:18), who (Rom. 4:12), for (Rom. 14:10), for (1 Cor. 10:28), I (1 Cor. 14:15), the (1 Cor. 14:15), and (1 Cor. 15:41), glory (1 Cor. 15:41), also (1 Cor. 15:48), also (2 Cor. 8:21), and (2 Cor. 9:5), as (2 Cor. 9:5), also, also (2 Cor. 9:6), of the Damascenes (2 Cor. 11:32), a (Gal. 3:13), that (Gal. 5:15), Amen (Eph. 6:24), godly (1 Tim. 1:4), and (2 Tim. 1:7), all (2 Tim. 4:8), and the books (2 Tim. 4:13), with (Heb. 8:8), were (Heb. 11:23), of (James 3:7), are (James 5:2), all (1 Pet. 2:1), also (1 Pet. 2:6), and (1 John 2:16), of God (1 John 5:12), both (Jude 1:25), which are (Rev. 1:4), unto (Rev. 1:11), and (Rev. 5:13), and (Rev. 5:13).

 

[KJB1611reader]

From the comparisons in my book Today's KJV and 1611 Compared, it can be found that there would be over 190 whole words not found in the 1611 edition that would be added to it in a typical post-1900 KJV edition. The words are also listed on pages 174-175 in KJV defender Laurence Vance's 2025 book The Text of the King James Bible.

The OT added words to the 1611 edition include the following: also (Gen. 19:21), the (Gen. 22:7), the (Gen. 36:14), the (Exod. 1:15), for them (Exod. 15:25), of silver (Exod. 21:32), curtains (Exod. 26:8); the (Exod. 34:25), his boards (Exod. 35:11), of (Lev. 7:2), the (Lev. 11:3), of (Lev. 14:54), the (Lev. 18:3), unto you (Lev. 19:34), surely (Lev. 20:11), by me (Lev. 26:23), their iniquity and (Lev. 26:40), of the weight (Num. 7:31), of the weight (Num. 7:55), among (Num. 9:33), of (Num. 20:5), ye (Deut. 4:25), the (Deut. 4:32), all (Deut. 5:29), the (Deut. 9:10), the (Deut. 20:7), thy God (Deut. 26:1), the (Josh. 3:10), even (Josh. 11:17), even (Josh. 12:2), the (Josh. 12:6), the children of (Josh. 13:29), of, of, of (Jud. 1:31), to (1 Sam. 12:7), had (1 Sam. 18:1), and went (1 Sam. 18:27), the (1 Sam. 25:16), to (1 Sam. 30:29), He (2 Sam. 4:4), me (2 Sam. 16:12), king (1 Kings 9:11), him (1 Kings 13:6), of (1 Kings 15:29), to (1 Kings 16:19), him (2 Kings 8:19), of the LORD (2 Kings 11:10), all (2 Kings 20:13), and (1 Chron. 2:18), and (1 Chron. 6:60), valiant (1 Chron. 7:5), the (1 Chron. 26:30), and (1 Chron. 29:2), the (2 Chron. 8:16), king (2 Chron. 12:2), they (2 Chron. 29:23), And (2 Chron. 32:20), the men (Ezra 4:11), the (Ezra 7:18), of (Ezra 8:21), my (Neh. 2:12), the (Neh. 4:14), of (Neh. 7:59), so (Esther 1:8), Yea (Job 33:22), or (Job 41:5), and (Ps. 62:10), the (Ps. 99:2), and (Ps. 107:19), and (Ps. 113:9), hath (Ps. 115:3), her (Prov. 7:21), all (Eccl. 2:16), yet he shall not find it (Eccl. 8:17), as (S. S. 6:5), as (Isa. 5:24), of (Isa. 10:26), But (Isa. 34:11), the (Isa. 49:13), I (Isa. 51:16), thee (Isa. 57:8), them (Jer. 12:15), as (Jer. 26:18), my (Jer. 31:14), for (Jer. 31:18), the (Jer. 35:13), Zedekiah (Jer. 38:16), there (Jer. 42:16), and (Jer. 49:19), do (Jer. 50:29), the children of (Ezek. 3:11), and (Ezek. 7:23), in (Ezek. 10:2), a (Ezek. 11:24), all (Ezek. 12:19), and (Ezek. 26:9), the flock (Ezek. 34:31), side (Ezek. 48:2), us (Dan. 1:12), burning (Dan. 3:15), he (Amos 1:11), I (Mal. 2:2), ye (Mal. 4:2).

The NT added words to the 1611 edition are as follows: he (Matt. 3:12), hand (Matt. 6:3), him (Matt. 8:25), not (Matt. 12:23), the (Matt. 16:16), and (Matt. 16:19), the (Matt. 27:52), the (Mark 2:4), all (Luke 1:3), had (Luke 8:8), of (Luke 9:55), and (Luke 17:34), and said (John 7:16), I (John 15:4), but (John 16:25), and (Acts 2:22), the (Acts 5:34), they (Acts 15:34), the (Acts 18:5), in (Acts 24:14), we (Acts 27:18), who (Rom. 4:12), for (Rom. 14:10), for (1 Cor. 10:28), I (1 Cor. 14:15), the (1 Cor. 14:15), and (1 Cor. 15:41), glory (1 Cor. 15:41), also (1 Cor. 15:48), also (2 Cor. 8:21), and (2 Cor. 9:5), as (2 Cor. 9:5), also, also (2 Cor. 9:6), of the Damascenes (2 Cor. 11:32), a (Gal. 3:13), that (Gal. 5:15), Amen (Eph. 6:24), godly (1 Tim. 1:4), and (2 Tim. 1:7), all (2 Tim. 4:8), and the books (2 Tim. 4:13), with (Heb. 8:8), were (Heb. 11:23), of (James 3:7), are (James 5:2), all (1 Pet. 2:1), also (1 Pet. 2:6), and (1 John 2:16), of God (1 John 5:12), both (Jude 1:25), which are (Rev. 1:4), unto (Rev. 1:11), and (Rev. 5:13), and (Rev. 5:13).

Are these words in the Bishop's or the BOD?

Its quite strange that Rick's book is sold in the online marketplace here and I can't find a KJB. Well, there is some, but its so Expensive. There is other translations that are cheaper.

Shawn

 

[Layman]

Its quite strange that Rick's book is sold in the online marketplace here and I can't find a KJB.

I didn’t know that the Baptist Board had an online store.