Unconditional Salvation

[Charlie24]

One night long, long ago, the Angel of Death descended on Egypt bringing death to the first-born. God instructed Moses that each household would take a Lamb without blemish,

Exodus 12:7
"And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it."

And God told Moses,

Exodus 12:13
"And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt."

Concerning this, Kenneth Wuest said, "This is, without a doubt, one of the single most important Scriptures in the entirety of the Word of God. The Lamb had taken the fatal blow; and because it had taken the blow, those in the house would be spared. It was not a question of personal worthiness, self had nothing whatsoever to do in the matter, it was a matter of faith.

All under the cover of the Blood were safe, just as all presently under the cover of the Blood are safe. This means that they were not merely in a savable state, but rather that they were saved, as well, they were not partly saved and partly exposed to judgment, they were wholly saved, and because there is no such thing as partial justification. The Lord didn't say, when I see you, or when I see your good works, etc, but, 'When I see the Blood.'

This speaks of Christ and what He would do at the Cross in order that we might be saved, which pertained to Him giving Himself in sacrifice, which necessitated the shedding of His precious Blood."

These Hebrew children were saved when they left Egypt to enter into the wilderness where God would would give them His great Law. But we see that they did not enter into God's rest, they perished both physically and spiritually in the wilderness.

Hebrews 3:10-11
"Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest."

Then Paul gives us fair warning,

vs 12
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God."

Take notice, Paul is speaking to the "Brethren" here, departing from God!

Then Paul gives us a second warning!

4:1
"Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."

Paul is still speaking to the Hebrew Brethren!

Folks, there is no such thing as "unconditional salvation."

 

[kyredneck]

Paul is speaking to the "Brethren" here, departing from God!

Context is Jewish Christians succumbing to the persecution from Jewish non-Christians and 'falling away back' [turning back in their hearts to Egypt] to the apostate religion that murdered Christ, thereby 'crucifying Christ anew'. Hebrews 6:6

 

[Van]

Once again I am not sure just what is being asserted in the OP.

What does "unconditional salvation" mean. Once a person is saved, are there conditions whereby that salvation can be lost?
Or what if once a person is saved, they are saved unconditionally, noting can snatch them from God's salvation.

 

[Charlie24]

Once again I am not sure just what is being asserted in the OP.

What does "unconditional salvation" mean. Once a person is saved, are there conditions whereby that salvation can be lost?
Or what if once a person is saved, they are saved unconditionally, noting can snatch them from God's salvation.

This is the condition, Van. It's clear and easy to understand from Paul, and in the same context with the OP.

Heb. 3:14
"For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"

IF we keep our faith to the end!

I know that denominational teaching is almost impossible to penetrate, believe as you will!

I'm not going to argue the plain truth with you!

 

[Charlie24]

Context is Jewish Christians succumbing to the persecution from Jewish non-Christians and 'falling away back' [turning back in their hearts to Egypt] to the apostate religion that murdered Christ, thereby 'crucifying Christ anew'. Hebrews 6:6

That's fine ky, it can be whatever you want it to be, Brother.

I'll not contest it!

 

[DaveXR650]

@Charlie24 Are you free will Baptist? Arminian?

 

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24 Are you free will Baptist? Arminian?

I'm one of those dreaded IFB. I'm sure you've heard of us.

 

[kyredneck]

That's fine ky, it can be whatever you want it to be, Brother.

I'll not contest it!

So Charlie, is this just 'any ol' sin'? Or is it a sin specific to the Hebrew Christians of that day?

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, Heb 10

 

[DaveXR650]

I'm one of those dreaded IFB. I'm sure you've heard of us.

I don't understand then your positions on a lot of things. On the other thread OSAS is a huge definer of IFB's. And you come on supporting a Catholic. On this thread, any IFB would say that the blood applied is the "condition" for salvation. If it is "unconditional" election to salvation you are talking about then I can see your opposition to that as an IFB. I'm not criticizing, but just asking.

 

[Charlie24]

So Charlie, is this just 'any ol' sin'? Or is it a sin specific to the Hebrew Christians of that day?

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, Heb 10

That is a very good question, ky. What is sinning willfully?

I just found my next thread. But let me give you a quick summary.

It's referred to as "the willful sin" and it refers to the willful sin of unbelief after accepting Christ as Saviour.

This is Paul's plea to the believing Hebrews who are considering going back to temple worship (Judaism) and abandoning Christ altogether.

Paul tells them in doing so "you have trampled under foot the Son of God."

it is the "willful sin" of turning from Christ in unbelief again.

 

[Charlie24]

I don't understand then your positions on a lot of things. On the other thread OSAS is a huge definer of IFB's. And you come on supporting a Catholic. On this thread, any IFB would say that the blood applied is the "condition" for salvation. If it is "unconditional" election to salvation you are talking about then I can see your opposition to that as an IFB. I'm not criticizing, but just asking.

You've been reading the internet. Inside the IFB, as with all denominations, there is a division.

OSAS is one of those issues, not all of us believe that, and we have the Scripture for that belief, we didn't pull it out of thin air.

 

[Charlie24]

That is a very good question, ky. What is sinning willfully?

I just found my next thread. But let me give you a quick summary.

It's referred to as "the willful sin" and it refers to the willful sin of unbelief after accepting Christ as Saviour.

This is Paul's plea to the believing Hebrews who are considering going back to temple worship (Judaism) and abandoning Christ altogether.

Paul tells them in doing so "you have trampled under foot the Son of God."

it is the "willful sin" of turning from Christ in unbelief again.

Just to give you a head start before I create the thread (when I get time), when Paul said, "for if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS."

Paul is telling them if they abandon Christ, there is no other way for their sins to be forgiven. Christ is that sacrifice for sin.

 

[Van]

This is the condition, Van. It's clear and easy to understand from Paul, and in the same context with the OP.

Heb. 3:14
"For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"

IF we keep our faith to the end!

I know that denominational teaching is almost impossible to penetrate, believe as you will!

I'm not going to argue the plain truth with you!

The issue is what is the plain truth.

If we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast until the end, that proves we were made partakers of Christ.

Apparently, folks, Charlie24 believes those born anew can lose their salvation. I am not sure because, once again, we have a poster unwilling to make a definitive statement of his or her position.

 

[Charlie24]

The issue is what is the plain truth.

If we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast until the end, that proves we were made partakers of Christ.

Apparently, folks, Charlie24 believes those born anew can lose their salvation. I am not sure because, once again, we have a poster unwilling to make a definitive statement of his or her position.

My "definitive statement" is clearly found in the OP. Van just wants to argue, as it seems that is your main purpose here.

Have at it with someone else, my belief is plainly stated in the OP.

 

[DaveXR650]

You've been reading the internet. Inside the IFB, as with all denominations, there is a division.

OSAS is one of those issues, not all of us believe that, and we have the Scripture for that belief, we didn't pull it out of thin air.

Charlie I was an IFB before the internet existed. Even had my own subscription to Sword of the Lord. Sat under a pastor for a while who was a direct student (disciple) of Jack Hyles. Carried a Scofield KJV. You are more than correct in that there is division. But I never saw division on OSAS. If you are free will Baptist that is OK with me. Or Arminian or Wesleyan. I respect them greatly. But you seem confused to me. IFB is an identifiable group. Fundamentalism in general is much broader. You are not posting like an IFB. I'm sorry.

 

[Van]

My "definitive statement" is clearly found in the OP. Van just wants to argue, as it seems that is your main purpose here.

Have at it with someone else, my belief is plainly stated in the OP.

But not stated in post 14.

Were any of the OT saints saved with the blood of Jesus before He died? Nope

Here is my statement, once saved, always saved.
Here may be Charlie24 view, once saved, not necessarily always saved. Who knows?
What does it mean to be saved? To be transferred spiritually into Christ's spiritual body!

 

[Charlie24]

But not stated in post 14.

Were any of the OT saints saved with the blood of Jesus before He died? Nope

Here is my statement, once saved, always saved.
Here may be Charlie24 view, once saved, not necessarily always saved. Who knows?
What does it mean to be saved? To be transferred spiritually into Christ's spiritual body!

It's a beautiful day here, Van. The sun is shining, the birds are chirping, it's around 70 degrees.

A light breeze, just enough to feel comfortable. I looked out in the pasture and the horses are running throwing their heads up in the air feeling frisky and happy.

The Lord has given us a gorgeous day here in NC, despite the hurricane we had coming past here.

 

[Van]

It's a beautiful day here, Van. The sun is shining, the birds are chirping, it's around 70 degrees.


A light breeze, just enough to feel comfortable. I looked out in the pasture and the horses are running throwing their heads up in the air feeling frisky and happy.

The Lord has given us a gorgeous day here in NC, despite the hurricane we had coming past here.

Here is my statement, once saved, always saved.
Here may be Charlie24 view, once saved, not necessarily always saved. Who knows?
What does it mean to be saved? To be transferred spiritually into Christ's spiritual body!

 

[37818]

Folks, there is no such thing as "unconditional salvation."

I think this explains the point being made.

 

[Charlie24]

I think this explains the point being made.

Contrary to some here, it does explain it.

Whether it's believed or not is totally up to the individual.

I'm just presenting what I believe to be true.