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Unconditional Salvation
- Thread starter Charlie24
- Start date
Here is my statement, once saved, always saved.
Here may be Charlie24 view, once saved, not necessarily always saved. Who knows?
What does it mean to be saved? To be transferred spiritually into Christ's spiritual body!
What denominations teach once saved, always saved? None stated.
Does Charlie24 teach once saved, always saved. Who knows?
What denominations teach salvation is defined as being transferred spiritually into Christ. None stated.
37818
Well-Known Member
@Charlie24,
How one may believe a same thing may differ, depending on other points of difference. There are different views on the Blblical understanding of the concept of the Trinity.
Here the point is salvation has conditions. How one understands this, does differ.
How one may believe a same thing may differ, depending on other points of difference. There are different views on the Blblical understanding of the concept of the Trinity.
Here the point is salvation has conditions. How one understands this, does differ.
The important thing that I would point out is that all of us are justified by faith alone, not by our understanding of Doctrine. If that were the case none of us would see the Kingdom of God.
The old saying, you can get all the doctrines wrong, but if you get Christ right, you're going to make it. So many of us can't even get that right!
As far as the OP, whatever you believe has no bearing on your salvation. But I bring caution with the OP, don't think you can live as you please, thinking I can't lose my salvation! Many have fallen into that trap, and it is the reason the OP exists.
We must reach that finish line with our faith in Christ fully in tact, it is faith alone that saved us, and it is faith alone that keeps us saved!
Whether you believe the OP or not, I caution you at all costs in this life, guard your faith with all that you have. Don't let your crown be taken by Satan!
Rev. 3:11
"Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."
Satan uses other men of false teachings to take the crowns of life everlasting!
That's fine too, Brother. I hear it from time to time.
I'm a believer in Christ Jesus first, and then dispensationalism.
If by chance you can't justify my IFB stand, then so be it.
John made it perfectly clear that we have eternal security, we can know right now in this life that we are saved.
1 John 5:13
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
Please whatever you take from me, don't for one second believe that I don't believe in eternal secrity!
What I'm trying so desperately to communicate, in my dumfounded way, is that only faith in Christ can secure salvation. Faith in Him is the only security, and without that faith there is no security.
I know that this is contrary to what most of you have been taught in Church.
And I know that most will reject it, that is your privilege.
It was hard for me, as I was taught the exact same as you in the IFB ranks as a child from as far back as I can remember. My Mom said my first service in the IFB Church was 9 months before I was born.
Have I sinned by showing from Scripture what I have found? Am I an outcast now in the Baptist ranks?
And I know that most will reject it, that is your privilege.
It was hard for me, as I was taught the exact same as you in the IFB ranks as a child from as far back as I can remember. My Mom said my first service in the IFB Church was 9 months before I was born.
Have I sinned by showing from Scripture what I have found? Am I an outcast now in the Baptist ranks?
Spoken just like a Calvinist would. Never mind that nowhere in the Bible does it say that. In fact, the Bible says that justification is NOT by faith alone.
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2
You just refuse to believe it, ky, that's all.
Romans 4:3
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."
Paul took this from Gen. 15:6.
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37818
Well-Known Member
In the summer of 1962, I was lead to Christ as my Savior at an independent fundamental Baptist church before that Sunday morning service.
K. Doesn't say anything about 'faith alone'. Abraham had done a whoooole lot more prior to Genesis 15:6 than just belief alone.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I agree with you 100%. But you confuse people the way you post. I thought you meant by "unconditional salvation" the idea that some have, that faith is not a condition for salvation but that a person is regenerated and justified and then faith naturally follows. Also, in terminology, people think of unconditional election as opposed to salvation - causing further confusion. Then, when you are coy, and almost seem offended when someone asks you where you are coming from you give an answer that I know for sure is completely unacceptable in any bonified IFB church.
So in truth, I probably agree with your stand. And I do think that IFB churches used to be very good at making sure people understood the battle we face against the world, the flesh and the devil, and they preached on that. Still, they framed it not as if there was any possibility of a truly saved individual actually losing their salvation. I happen to think it's possible for some people to eventually turn away from the faith but there again - you have the endless discussion of if they were ever really saved.
That's what I meant by you refusing the believe it.
You take all that Abraham did as cumulative to gain salvation. A works salvation.
When he simply believed God and he was granted righteousness.
That was Paul's point in Rom. 4,
Oh, yes, you'll never be able to convince some here that salvation can be lost. Every single time they were never saved to begin with. Even if the Scripture says they were.
There's going to be more threads about it, hold on, it's going the be a bumpy ride, but I'm not going to argue the points I make. I will present it, and they can believe it or not.
Was it an unrighteous man that Jehovah called out of Mesopotamia, appeared to several times, and announced blessings upon, years before Gen 15:6?
Was it an unregenerate man that built an altar to Jehovah at Shechem years before Gen 15:6?
Was it to a dead alien sinner that Melchizedek pronounced 'Blessed be Abram of God Most High' years before Gen 15:6?
Abraham didn't become righteous at Genesis 15:6, he was PRONOUNCED to be righteous.
Like it or not, REGENERATION PRECEDES FAITH.
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Dave, let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. The average OSAS person will read this and deny till the end of time they were saved and turned from God.
Hebrews 6:4-6
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
They deny it because they don't have a clue what Paul is talking about.
But we're going to find out exactly what Paul is talking about in some coming thrreads.
I'm worried about you, ky. You're expressing all the earmarks of a work based salvation!
I think a Justification by Faith thread is very much needed here.
I will address it in a new thread with total detail when I find the time to do so.
37818
Well-Known Member
It doesn't actually say "If they shall fall away, to . . ."
But, "And they shall fall away, to . . ."
I want to hear your insight regarding 4-6.
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Please. Do it.