Unconditional Salvation

[Charlie24]

It doesn't actually say "If they shall fall away, to . . ."
But, "And they shall fall away, to . . ."

I what to hear your insight regarding 4-6.

Hold on Brother, you'll get it, but time is a problem for me.

I like to take my time with the Word of God, handle it carefully, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

I want everyone to understand exactly what I'm saying, and that my friend is very difficult with computer ink.

 

[Charlie24]

Please. Do it.

That's why I'm here! Post #41

 

[MrW]

I'm worried about you, ky. You're expressing all the earmarks of a work based salvation!

I think a Justification by Faith thread is very much needed here.

I will address it in a new thread with total detail when I find the time to do so.

Were people regenerated, born again, before Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit?

 

[MrW]

It doesn't actually say "If they shall fall away, to . . ."
But, "And they shall fall away, to . . ."

I want to hear your insight regarding 4-6.

THIS is what it says: 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

IF. It refers to Jews rejecting the sacrifice of Christ snd returning to Mosaic sacrifices.

It was written to Jews (Hebrews) halting between two opinions, not to saved, born from above Gentiles, though we can learn much from the book, one of my favorites.

 

[Charlie24]

Were people regenerated, born again, before Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit?

There's a difference in being born-again vs being saved, that is another argument we don't need to drag into this conversation. It has to do with the indwelling Holy Spirit that we have since the Cross, but they never had. So please, let's not get off on rabbit trails here.

If you must discuss this start a new thread, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. Thanks

 

[37818]

THIS is what it says: 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

IF. It refers to Jews rejecting the sacrifice of Christ snd returning to Mosaic sacrifices.

It was written to Jews (Hebrews) halting between two opinions, not to saved, born from above Gentiles, though we can learn much from the book, one of my favorites.

?

 

[37818]

IF. It refers to . . .

That "IF" isn't really in the text being translated!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That's fine ky, it can be whatever you want it to be, Brother.

I'll not contest it!

But surely you do understand the truth in it don’t you?

 

[David Lamb]

There's a difference in being born-again vs being saved, that is another argument we don't need to drag into this conversation. It has to do with the indwelling Holy Spirit that we have since the Cross, but they never had. So please, let's not get off on rabbit trails here.

If you must discuss this start a new thread, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. Thanks

So are you saying you believe somebody can by born again without being saved, or be saved without being born again?

 

[MrW]

?

You changed “If” to “and” in your post.

 

[Van]

Here is my statement, once saved, always saved.
Here may be Charlie24 view, once saved, not necessarily always saved. Who knows?
What does it mean to be saved? To be transferred spiritually into Christ's spiritual body!

Salvation is conditional, either God credits our faith or not.

Romans 4:4-5; Romans 4:23-25

Everyone believing into Him, John 3:16

Your faith has saved you, Luke 7:50

 

[37818]

You changed “If” to “and” in your post.

Actually the Greek conjunction "kai" had been being translated as an "if" in Hebrews 6:6 since Tyndale.

 

[Charlie24]

But surely you do understand the truth in it don’t you?

Your truth and my truth may not be the same. The problem for us is that there is only one truth in Scripture.

We can decide that when I get around to creating the new thread. At least my version of the truth will be on the table.

 

[Charlie24]

So are you saying you believe somebody can by born again without being saved, or be saved without being born again?

No I'm not! The OT saints were saved the same way we are saved, justification by faith.

The regeneration that takes place according to Col. 2 also took place with them.

The difference is the way that God dealt with man before the Law.

God doesn't deal with us in this Age of Grace the same as He dealt with those under the Law.

He didn't deal the same with those before the Law as He did with those under the Law.

Rom. 5:13
"For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

Before the Law was given to define sin, the sins were not charged to these individuals, but that in no way cleared them of being a sinner.

The question is, without sin being imputed to these during this time, was it possible for them to be born-again, or were they just accepted by God?

I don't know! It could be they were not born again in this condition of understanding.

 

[Charlie24]

No I'm not! The OT saints were saved the same way we are saved, justification by faith.

The regeneration that takes place according to Col. 2 also took place with them.

The difference is the way that God dealt with man before the Law.

God doesn't deal with us in this Age of Grace the same as He dealt with those under the Law.

He didn't deal the same with those before the Law as He did with those under the Law.

Rom. 5:13
"For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

Before the Law was given to define sin, the sins were not charged to these individuals, but that in no way cleared them of being a sinner.

The question is, without sin being imputed to these during this time, was it possible for them to be born-again, or were they just accepted by God?

I don't know! It could be they were not born again in this condition of understanding.

The point I'm try to relay is this, the born-again experience is the spiritual washing away of sin and being declared righteous before God.

Those before the Law had no sin imputed to wash away. So were they just saved or born-again.

If born-again, how would that work when there are no sins imputed to was away?

 

[Charlie24]

The point I'm try to relay is this, the born-again experience is the spiritual washing away of sin and being declared righteous before God.

Those before the Law had no sin imputed to wash away. So were they just saved or born-again.

If born-again, how would that work when there are no sins imputed to was away?

By the way, this is dispensationalism, the recognition of dispensations in history where God dealt differently with man according to his knowledge of God and His redemption plan.

 

[MrW]

Actually the Greek conjunction "kai" had been being translated as an "if" in Hebrews 6:6 since Tyndale.

And I agree with the “if” translation.

 

[Dave G]

Folks, there is no such thing as "unconditional salvation."

" But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. " ( Titus 3:4-7 )

 

[Dave G]

"For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"

IF we keep our faith to the end!

Have you ever considered that it is evidential, and not something one can give away?
That if a person keeps their faith to the end, its a sure sign that they are one of God's people?

Wheat and tares, Charlie.
Please see Matthew 13.

Tossing that out for you to consider.

 

[Charlie24]

" But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. " ( Titus 3:4-7 )

Hello Dave! There's a condition to salvation, it's called faith/believing in Christ.

There is no place in Scripture where anyone was saved without meeting that condition.

Granted, some will define the OP title as salvation being all of God, and none of man, and I totally agree.

The problem with my definition and there's is that they claim OSAS as the result, I feel certain in my last 2 threads this is not the case by any means.