Unconfessed Sin

[Brother Bob]

I fully agree with this.

Ed

Are you also saying that all men's sins are forgiven?

 

[skypair]

If unbelief were unpardonable, how would anyone be saved? We weren't born as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. So before we were converted, we were all unbelievers. If a person persists in unbelief, and dies in unbelief, then of course they cannot be pardoned after death for their unbelief.

I said "rejecting" Him, not unbelief.

You are obviously making the issue for infants. Infants haven't rejected nor believed, have they. They are "just" according to innocence -- never having been capable of rejecting.

Not only did those scribes not believe in Jesus, they ascribed Satan His work of casting out demons. Plenty of my friends and neighbours don't believe in Jesus Christ, and I fervently pray that God will graciously save them as He has me, but none of them ascribe His works to Satan.

Did you read Prov 8:26-36? They're still rejecting Christ then, right?

skypair

 

[skypair]

I think its foolish to compare David with those who have the blood already applied to their souls, of which David did not.[/qupte] What???! David didn't go the the pit, the "hell" side of sheol, did he? He went to Abraham's bosom like all who were justified before the cross. You apparently don't understand "slain from the foundation of the world," Bob.

How would that make any difference anyway?

Also, who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, of which David did not, Also, who have the mind of Christ, which David did not.

While those are good and valid points, they do NOT change the effects of "hormones" and instincts/lusts. And the commandments were there to deny the "liberty" you seemingly give to them.

I think you do error in not telling people to believe in Christ includes repentance, confession that He is the Christ. I do not like the doctrine of "say you believe" and you are saved.

Well, I do tell them to this. Where did you get ny other impression?

But that next sentence gets down to the heart of the issue, doesn't it, Bob? You refuse to believe in "faith alone." You want to take God's place in dealing with their sin, right? You're not warning them --- you're JUDGING them as if you were God. "Judge nothing before its time," Bob.

The Gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation. Jesus said to preach "repentance", you and Ed and saying "just believe" without explain that to believe from the heart includes repentance, confession.

I think Ed gave a pretty good accounting of his theology. I don't see the "gaps" you mention. Did you notice his citation of 2Cor 5:20-21?

You are using what I see on TV all the time, "just come up here and say the sinners prayer and you will be saved" hogwash.

Really, Bob. This is beneath you. You are remiss to omit the whole sermon that precedes the invitation. Is Billy Graham "hogwash?"

If you want to tell people what it takes to be saved, tell them what Jesus said to tell them. Why are you trying to go around Jesus?

"Go around Christ?" It sounds like you are the one who would have them throw away their WWJD bracelets and obey the Mosaic law!

It worries me that some are causing people to settle down on something short of salvation.

Your real worry sounds like it is directed toward whether people will come up short of the "abundant life" -- cause that is about the only thing that we can "judge" is what we see them do.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

This scripture alone tells you that sins will condemn you to hell.

Hell on earth, Bob.

Are you saying that all men's sins are forgiven?

Yes, Bob, ALL so far as eternity is concerned. But have you noticed that believers can still experience here on the earth the wrath that God has reserved for the "children of disobedience... therefore be not partakers with them?"

Let me run it by you again: God may have mercy on confessed sins and we may not suffer the earthly consequences thereof (Sins against God confessed to God; sins against men confessed to men.). He will chastise -- call believer's attention to -- sin in their lives so that He is constantly 'sanctifying' them. If they continue to willfully sin (no confession), there is no more sacrifice for sin (many try to "compensate" for their sin through good works but there is no taking away of the consequences that way).

You know, it is MUCH BETTER to let God deal with believers than for us to "meddle" in their affairs and "trick up" scriptures to try to "manage" it for them.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

I think its foolish to compare David with those who have the blood already applied to their souls, of which David did not.[/qupte] What???! David didn't go the the pit, the "hell" side of sheol, did he? He went to Abraham's bosom like all who were justified before the cross. You apparently don't understand "slain from the foundation of the world," Bob.

How would that make any difference anyway?

I understand a fountain being open for the House of David for sin and uncleaness when Jesus died.

He Stood as a slain Lamb, He had not been slain yet.

Also, who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, of which David did not, Also, who have the mind of Christ, which David did not. While those are good and valid points, they do NOT change the effects of "hormones" and instincts/lusts. And the commandments were there to deny the "liberty" you seemingly give to them.

No, but it does change, Kept by the power of God.
Why do you think Jesus came if the first covenant was good enough?

You are using what I see on TV all the time, "just come up here and say the sinners prayer and you will be saved" hogwash. Really, Bob. This is beneath you. You are remiss to omit the whole sermon that precedes the invitation. Is Billy Graham "hogwash?"

In some things, yes

If you want to tell people what it takes to be saved, tell them what Jesus said to tell them. Why are you trying to go around Jesus? "Go around Christ?" It sounds like you are the one who would have them throw away their WWJD bracelets and obey the Mosaic law!

I don't keep running back to David to support today, you do.

It worries me that some are causing people to settle down on something short of salvation. Your real worry sounds like it is directed toward whether people will come up short of the "abundant life" -- cause that is about the only thing that we can "judge" is what we see them do.

Well, there is the blind leading the blind and they both fall in the ditch.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

This scripture alone tells you that sins will condemn you to hell. Hell on earth, Bob.

That is not where the rich man is.

Quote:
Are you saying that all men's sins are forgiven?
Yes, Bob, ALL so far as eternity is concerned. But have you noticed that believers can still experience here on the earth the wrath that God has reserved for the "children of disobedience... therefore be not partakers with them?"

This is news to me, Jesus said if you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come.

Then, you believe in Universal Salvation?

Let me run it by you again: God may have mercy on confessed sins and we may not suffer the earthly consequences thereof (Sins against God confessed to God; sins against men confessed to men.). He will chastise -- call believer's attention to -- sin in their lives so that He is constantly 'sanctifying' them. If they continue to willfully sin (no confession), there is no more sacrifice for sin (many try to "compensate" for their sin through good works but there is no taking away of the consequences that way).

You seem to be saying if the saved sin willingly contineous, then they are lost for eternity. In other words "fall from Grace".

 

[skypair]

I understand a fountain being open for the House of David for sin and uncleaness when Jesus died.

He Stood as a slain Lamb, He had not been slain yet.

And David hadn't been raised either. But he wasn't in the pit but in Abraham's bosom, Bob. His faith in God justified him.

No, but it does change, Kept by the power of God. Why do you think Jesus came if the first covenant was good enough?

And the "power of God" is the Holy Spirit, right? But we quench, grieve, and ignore the spirit all the time unto sin. The "power" is, therefore, His PRESENCE in us, not His control over us!

In some things [BG errs], yes

Yeah, but not in the gospel presentation and invitation, Bob.

I don't keep running back to David to support today, you do.

For refutation. He sinned the sins you say can never get to heaven -- yet you agree he is there right now! So is the exception to YOUR rule the OT saints?

That is not where the rich man is.

Huh? The rich man was on earth. His "sin" was rejecting the Spirit which I said was the only sin that was unpardonable. I don't see your point.

This is news to me, Jesus said if you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come.

Then, you believe in Universal Salvation?

Perhaps you would see it that way. I see that through Christ EVERYONE is given a new body to appear before the judgment seat -- even the GWT. Do you see that, Bob? That tells me that Jesus did die for ALL sin because ALL are resurrected from sheol/hell. It's universal, right? And then there is a "2nd death" for the lost, right? A death because one never was born of the Spirit/indwelt but instead rejected the Spirit. Do you see that? ALL are saved from sin but if there was no Spirit, then He was rejected before the first death.

You seem to be saying if the saved sin willingly contineous, then they are lost for eternity. In other words "fall from Grace".

It's not "fall from grace" -- it's never saved. Confession is the evidence of it not being willful sin -- of someone being "ensnared" and needing God's help to be free.

 

[Brother Bob]

Jer 30:15Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow [is] incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: [because] thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.

This is news to me, Jesus said if you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come.

Then, you believe in Universal Salvation? Perhaps you would see it that way. I see that through Christ EVERYONE is given a new body to appear before the judgment seat -- even the GWT. Do you see that, Bob? That tells me that Jesus did die for ALL sin because ALL are resurrected from sheol/hell. It's universal, right? And then there is a "2nd death" for the lost, right? A death because one never was born of the Spirit/indwelt but instead rejected the Spirit. Do you see that? ALL are saved from sin but if there was no Spirit, then He was rejected before the first death.

To be resurrected to face the second death is not because of the blood of Christ, it is for Judgement. As Jesus said, the words I speak shall judge you in the last day.

You seem to be saying if the saved sin willingly contineous, then they are lost for eternity. In other words "fall from Grace". It's not "fall from grace" -- it's never saved

I agree with you on this one.

Quote:
I understand a fountain being open for the House of David for sin and uncleaness when Jesus died.

He Stood as a slain Lamb, He had not been slain yet.
And David hadn't been raised either. But he wasn't in the pit but in Abraham's bosom, Bob. His faith in God justified him.

His sepulche is with us unto this day. If standing as a slain lamb before the foundation of the world would of taking care of his sins, then his body would be resurrected also. It still takes the blood of Christ to raise him from the dead and cover his sins. David did not have the long white robe in Matt;