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Understanding John 1:14

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Van

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The Archangel said:
While Jesus is unique and He is divine, it's not because of the word μονογενής. Again.... If you insist, as you wrongly do, that it means "divine" in some way, then Isaac is divine as well as the boy in Luke 9.

58.52 μονογενής, ές: pertaining to what is unique in the sense of being the only one of the same kind or class—‘unique, only.’ τὸν υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν ‘he gave his only Son’ Jn 3:16; τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἀπέσταλκεν ὁ θεός ‘God sent his only Son’ 1 Jn 4:9; τὸν μονογενῆ προσέφερεν ὁ τὰς ἐπαγγελίας ἀναδεξάμενος ‘he who had received the promises presented his only son’ or ‘… was ready to offer his only son’ He 11:17. Abraham, of course, did have another son, Ishmael, and later sons by Keturah, but Isaac was a unique son in that he was a son born as the result of certain promises made by God. Accordingly, he could be called a μονογενής son, since he was the only one of his kind.

Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 590.​

The "deity" idea of John 1:14 comes from the phrase δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός which would be "glory as the unique Son from the Father." It does not come from μονογενής the word.

The Archangel
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Good grief, did anyone say Jesus was uniquely divine because of the Greek word monogenes? No of course not. Why some have so much difficulty cleaving to truth is beyond me.
The word means "one of o kind" and is translated as "unique" in several English translations. The reason Jesus is unique is that He is divine.​

Jesus is "one of a kind" because He is uniquely divine, God incarnate.
That is what I actually said. Why all this effort to find fault where none exists? Go figure!!
 
V

Van

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The third word for study is "glory" (G1391 - doxan). What was the glory of Jesus that His Apostles beheld?

Certainly Jesus fulfilled God's purpose as (1) the Son of God, (2) the Lamb of God, (3) the Christ or Messiah or Savior, (4) the perfect image of God, and (5) as the Good Shepherd caring for and nurturing His sheep. Through the gospel of Christ, we too have beheld His glory. In our verse (John 1:14) some of Christ's unique manifestations of His glory are called out. These will be presented subsequently.
 
V

Van

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The next phrase (of the only Son from the Father) contains several controversial words which I believe must be dealt with collectively.

Of the only Son is the NASB translation of monogenes, and could better be translated as uniquely divine Son.

From (Greek para) might better be translated as "sent from" indicating God incarnate was sent by the Father. Putting the phrase together we get, "the uniquely divine Son sent from the Father.
 
The Archangel

The Archangel

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Van said:
Good grief, did anyone say Jesus was uniquely divine because of the Greek word monogenes? No of course not. Why some have so much difficulty cleaving to truth is beyond me.
The word means "one of o kind" and is translated as "unique" in several English translations. The reason Jesus is unique is that He is divine.​

Jesus is "one of a kind" because He is uniquely divine, God incarnate.
That is what I actually said.
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No... This is what you actually said:

Van said:
If we translate monogenes as "uniquely divine" when the word refers to the Second Person of the Trinity, and we accept that God and not Son appears next in the text, we get "uniquely divine God." And that can only refer to God incarnate, Jesus the Christ.
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What you posted (directly above) is different from what you posted further above.

Van said:
Why all this effort to find fault where none exists? Go figure!!
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Because the error with you is not non-existent.

The Archangel
 
The Archangel

The Archangel

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Van said:
From (Greek para) might better be translated as "sent from" indicating God incarnate was sent by the Father. Putting the phrase together we get, "the uniquely divine Son sent from the Father.
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You cannot translate παρα as "sent from." WIth the genitive, which it is in this case, it is simply "from," and it in no way implies a verb. The idea is not that Jesus was "sent from" the Father in this clause. The idea is "we have seen His glory" because "seen" is the most direct correlating verb here. Παρα here modifies glory. If you insist on translating the preposition παρα as "sent from" then--in this text--you would need to say that Jesus' glory was sent from the Father.

The Archangel
 
37818

37818

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SavedByGrace said:
what do you mean by "secondary"? are you saying that there is a Yahweh Who is not Yahweh?
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No. But a "unique God" to be visible who is at [the invisible] God's side being identied as Yahweh too. John 1:18 [CT reading], Genesis 12:7.
 
The Archangel

The Archangel

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SavedByGrace said:
explain how this can be seen as the Deity of Jesus Christ? It is forcing the meaning
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It is in the context of the whole passage. The "Word" is identified as being with God and being God in vs 1-3. In v. 14 the Word became flesh and dwelt with man. John continues: "we have seen His glory" and then defines the nature of the glory--"glory as of the only Son from the Father." So, the glory that John (as well as Peter and James) saw was a further demonstration of Jesus' divinity.

The Archangel
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

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The Archangel said:
It is in the context of the whole passage. The "Word" is identified as being with God and being God in vs 1-3. In v. 14 the Word became flesh and dwelt with man. John continues: "we have seen His glory" and then defines the nature of the glory--"glory as of the only Son from the Father." So, the glory that John (as well as Peter and James) saw was a further demonstration of Jesus' divinity.

The Archangel
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ok, I see, you refer to the passage and not just vere 14. thanks for clearing that.
 
J

JesusFan

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Van said:
John 1:14 (NASB)
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:14 (NLT)
So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.

Several Greek words are used in this verse with vague or controversial meanings. Among them are "Word," "flesh," "glory," "only or one and only," "from," "grace," and "truth."

The Greek word translated as "Word" is the Greek word "Logos" (G3056) and refers to the Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son. Some claim that "Logos" did not become the Son until the incarnation, but others point to scripture referring to the Son before becoming flesh. The role of Logos within the Trinity is to carry out the purpose of the Father. And this eternal subordinate function can be referred to as "sonship" although the word "son" carries with it the idea of being created by action of the Father, which is heresy.
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Jesus was and is the only begotten of the father, eternal logos who incarnated as the Son!
 
J

JesusFan

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Van said:
If we translate monogenes as "uniquely divine" when the word refers to the Second Person of the Trinity, and we accept that God and not Son appears next in the text, we get "uniquely divine God." And that can only refer to God incarnate, Jesus the Christ.

I have not studied whether all of God's physical manifestations described in the OT were God the Son, rather than the conventional view of being the Father.
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the "conventional" view is that whenever God was seen by men, was preincarnate Christ!
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Good grief, did anyone say Jesus was uniquely divine because of the Greek word monogenes? No of course not. Why some have so much difficulty cleaving to truth is beyond me.
The word means "one of o kind" and is translated as "unique" in several English translations. The reason Jesus is unique is that He is divine.​

Jesus is "one of a kind" because He is uniquely divine, God incarnate.
That is what I actually said. Why all this effort to find fault where none exists? Go figure!!
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he is the only one who eternally existed as the Logos of the father
 
P

percho

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The Archangel said:
It is in the context of the whole passage. The "Word" is identified as being with God and being God in vs 1-3. In v. 14 the Word became flesh and dwelt with man. John continues: "we have seen His glory" and then defines the nature of the glory--"glory as of the only Son from the Father." So, the glory that John (as well as Peter and James) saw was a further demonstration of Jesus' divinity.

The Archangel
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I was going to post before I saw this post, IMHO, "(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)," in 1:14 is a reference to the transfiguration, as Peter does in 2 Peter 1:17,18. The transfiguration, being a vision of the post resurrected Jesus coming in glory. Also considering 1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Your thought?
 
The Archangel

The Archangel

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percho said:
I was going to post before I saw this post, IMHO, "(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)," in 1:14 is a reference to the transfiguration, as Peter does in 2 Peter 1:17,18. The transfiguration, being a vision of the post resurrected Jesus coming in glory. Also considering 1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Your thought?
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I think it is likely a reference (either directly or indirectly) to the transfiguration. Much like Peter's words in 2 Peter 1:16, "For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty" (emphasis mine). Obviously, v. 17 and 18 reference the transfiguration more directly. So... it would seem John 1:14 is most likely a reference to the transfiguration.

The Archangel
 
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