Understanding the 1000yr Reign?

[Brother Bob]

So God is done with ethnic Israel?
As many as will believe, He will give them power to become the sons of God.

The church has replaced Israel?

They twain become as one, not replaced just the middle wall of partition was broken down, where they are no longer twain, but as one

All the promises to Israel have been fulfilled in the church who is now spiritual Israel?

The Messiah did come to Israel, and they received Him not, but as many as did, He gave them power to become the sons of God and fulfilled the scripture " in that day I will make a new covenant to the household of Israel and household of Judah."


They twain (Gentile and Jew) have become "one", according to scripture.

Romans 11:
7: What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8: (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9: And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.
11: I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12: Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?
13: For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15: For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16: For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17: And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18: Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19: Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20: Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.


Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Eph 2:19 ¶ Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Jhn 1:29¶The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

He has already come, to Israel and the Gentile.


Jhn 18:36Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

If His Kingdom is not of this world, why is man trying to make it so. Can you show where Jesus was on earth in this thousand year reign???


Are we living under the "new" covenant?

BBob,

 

[TCGreek]

The Messiah did come to Israel, and they received Him not, but as many as did, He gave them power to become the sons of God and fulfilled the scripture " in that day I will make a new covenant to the household of Israel and household of Judah."


They twain (Gentile and Jew) have become "one", according to scripture.

Romans 11:
7: What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8: (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9: And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.
11: I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12: Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?
13: For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15: For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16: For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17: And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18: Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19: Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20: Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.


Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Eph 2:19 ¶ Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Jhn 1:29¶The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

He has already come, to Israel and the Gentile.


Jhn 18:36Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

If His Kingdom is not of this world, why is man trying to make it so. Can you show where Jesus was on earth in this thousand year reign???


Are we living under the "new" covenant?

BBob,

The church is not spiritual Israel, and the church has not replaced Israel in God's economy.

Paul says that a partial hardening has come upon Israel, but then God is going to returning to Israel and fulfill the new covenant.

Do not mistake a secondary application of the New Covenant to this church age for the entire fulfillment of it.

In this church age, yes Jews and Gentiles are forming the one body of Christ. But nowhere in Scripture have we seen the church replaced Israel.

 

[Brother Bob]

The church is not spiritual Israel, and the church has not replaced Israel in God's economy.

Paul says that a partial hardening has come upon Israel, but then God is going to returning to Israel and fulfill the new covenant.

Do not mistake a secondary application of the New Covenant to this church age for the entire fulfillment of it.

In this church age, yes Jews and Gentiles are forming the one body of Christ. But nowhere in Scripture have we seen the church replaced Israel.

Mat 15:26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.

Who was the children that the bread belonged too??

Mat 10:6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Was Jesus attempting to give Israel the "new" covenant when He was here??? Did they refuse it?? If they did receive Christ, did they have the "new" covenant when they were given power to become the sons of God, and were not all of them Israel.

Why was James still preaching to the twelve tribes of Israel, If their salvation was to come in "end times"??



James, chapter 1

1: James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2: My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3: Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4: But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6: But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7: For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8: A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Where in scripture does it say that the "new" covenant would be to the Gentiles, instead of Israel.

Why would Jesus not give the bread for the children to the Gentile woman?

What does it mean that we become as one with Israel?

What were the Gentiles "grafted" in too?? If with the original Olive branches, who are they?

Rom 11:17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Why did Paul say that he might be able to save some of them cutoff because of unbelief, through his preaching?

Rom 11:12Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.

How could Paul save them, if the "new" covenant was going to come to them until "end times"?

You never answered my questions, are we living under the "new" covenant that was promised to Israel, and if not then are we really saved??

Can you give scripture where the covenant was going to be made with the Gentiles??


BBob,

 

[skypair]

How can anyone believe we are not under the "new" covenant?

So far as I know, everyone believes we are under the new covenant, BBob. We just don't believe that the "house of Israel" and "house of Judah" are. Have you looked up the meaning of "house ofIsrael/Judah?" It's pretty specific when the Bible uses it elsewhere it speaks of the northern and southern kingdoms of Jews.

The reason we put THEIR new covenant into the end times is because the 70 weeks of Daniel (Dan 9:24) are NOT complete -- the 70th is the beginning of the Jer 31:31 period, the CHURCH having been RAPTURED first.

Which gets us back to all those millennial verses you wouldn't respond to on the other thread. So it would seem where one is willfully ignorant, one would not keep making unscriptural claims knowing full well that one hasn't studied the whole counsel of God.

How can you say and believe for sure that God will establish a kingdom for Israel for 1000 years, while at the same time saying that Israel refused Christ, so the "new" covenant time for Israel was changed by God to end times??? This is not scripture.

That's Dan 9:24-27. Dare you explain the "weeks" to us -- the 7, the 62, and the 1 week? And please don't give us any baloney about the 69 shabuhas (sp?) being literal to the day but the 1 not being a literal shabuha of 7 literal years.

You do need to give scripture where God said He would give the "new" covenant to the Gentiles first, if you are going to believe that it is still to come to Israel?

Gladly!! Rom 11:11 - "I say then, Have they [ISRAEL] stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

Rom 11:28, 30-32 (re: 11:26) "For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their [ISRAEL'S] unbelief: Even so have these [ISRAEL] also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

How about Rom 10:19-21 "But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."

Paul knew a thing or two about Israel -- you obviously DON'T!

Most of all, how come its to us (Gentiles), and not Israel now, instead of end times. Who changed it???

Look in the mirror --- YOU changed it! It wasn't God or Paul who said that Israel has already accepted Christ -- it was YOU. It wasn't God or Paul changing the meaning of "house of Israel" -- it was YOU.

They want to be political correct and make a way for Israel, who rejected Jesus, so they are now saying its going to happen in the "end times".[/quote] See, there's your problem. You ascribe invalid, blaspemous motives to everyone but yourself. But suppose that their motives are pure and yours are blasphemous, "Mr. Hymeneaus." Are you, as I said earlier, willfully ignorant or are you willing to know what God says?

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

So far as I know, everyone believes we are under the new covenant, BBob. We just don't believe that the "house of Israel" and "house of Judah" are. Have you looked up the meaning of "house ofIsrael/Judah?" It's pretty specific when the Bible uses it elsewhere it speaks of the northern and southern kingdoms of Jews.



The reason we put THEIR new covenant into the end times is because the 70 weeks of Daniel (Dan 9:24) are NOT complete -- the 70th is the beginning of the Jer 31:31 period, the CHURCH having been RAPTURED first.

Which gets us back to all those millennial verses you wouldn't respond to on the other thread. So it would seem where one is willfully ignorant, one would not keep making unscriptural claims knowing full well that one hasn't studied the whole counsel of God.

That's Dan 9:24-27. Dare you explain the "weeks" to us -- the 7, the 62, and the 1 week? And please don't give us any baloney about the 69 shabuhas (sp?) being literal to the day but the 1 not being a literal shabuha of 7 literal years.

Gladly!! Rom 11:11 - "I say then, Have they [ISRAEL] stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

Rom 11:28, 30-32 (re: 11:26) "For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their [ISRAEL'S] unbelief: Even so have these [ISRAEL] also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

How about Rom 10:19-21 "But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."

Paul knew a thing or two about Israel -- you obviously DON'T!

Look in the mirror --- YOU changed it! It wasn't God or Paul who said that Israel has already accepted Christ -- it was YOU. It wasn't God or Paul changing the meaning of "house of Israel" -- it was YOU.

They want to be political correct and make a way for Israel, who rejected Jesus, so they are now saying its going to happen in the "end times".

See, there's your problem. You ascribe invalid, blaspemous motives to everyone but yourself. But suppose that their motives are pure and yours are blasphemous, "Mr. Hymeneaus." Are you, as I said earlier, willfully ignorant or are you willing to know what God says?

skypair[/quote]

You deny the word of God.

Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

You hold to, those who were broken off, as being "all" of Israel, when they were just some branches.

The NT over and over is talking to Israel, and you deny it. You will not even accept that Jesus came to His own, being "Israel".

You say you "gladly" give an answer, and you give "backsliding" Israel under the OT. You twist the scripture, to fit your own "misguided" theology. Your ignorance is showing. You have not answers to why Paul said He might be able to save some of them. You have placed all your apples in the "end times" for Israel, when Jesus came to them. The Scripture says the "new" covenant was to be made to Israel. You changed it to Gentiles. Again, your ignorance is showing.


BBob,

 

[skypair]

Mat 15:26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.

Who was the children that the bread belonged too??

Israel.

Mat 10:6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This ties in nicely with another passage you, I guess, overlook where Jesus says there are TWO folds that He must bring in (John 10:16). He has brought in the Gentile fold, the church. He has yet to bring in the Jewish fold in the tribulation and MK.

Mat 10:7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Was Jesus attempting to give Israel the "new" covenant when He was here??? Did they refuse it?? If they did receive Christ, did they have the "new" covenant when they were given power to become the sons of God, and were not all of them Israel.

Jesus was attempting to give them His MK, have the Gentiles crucify Him, and in 7 years establish His earthly kingdom for 3000 years IMO. There was never a time element to Messiah's kingdom in the OT and via this timeline, Israel would evangelize the world. And clearly what they meant by "the kingdom is at hand" is Christ's physical kingdom.

Why was James still preaching to the twelve tribes of Israel, If their salvation was to come in "end times"??

Same theme as last paragraph. James was "first out of the box" with his epistle. Paul's early epistles as well (Thessalonians, 1Cor) anticipated the rapture, tribulation, and kingdom in own their lifetimes. I believe that James was addressing himself to the tribulation saints he thought would need to convert the trib Jews. I shouldn't doubt that it will be a very important book to the 144,000.

Where in scripture does it say that the "new" covenant would be to the Gentiles, instead of Israel.

answered above.

Why would Jesus not give the bread for the children to the Gentile woman?

It was for Israel first. Who did Jesus send out the 70 disciples to? The cities of ISRAEL -- "ye shall not have visited all the cities of Israel before the end come." Clearly, Israel had to reject Christ first.

What does it mean that we become as one with Israel?

What were the Gentiles "grafted" in too?? If with the original Olive branches, who are they?

It appears here you are trying to make "heads or tails" of Rom 11 so let's look at the olive tree (designating religious privileges with God, BTW). The "root" was Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The stem was Moses and the law. Those are TWO different "administrations"/dispensations, right? Well, the branches are yet a third dispensation. As you move up the "tree," you have to change your belief about God. Some few of the natural branches changed their beliefs --- but by no means can we say they were of all the tribes or "house of Israel/house of Judah." Most were cut out and replaced with the "wild" or Gentile "branches."

And there is coming a time future when the dispensation of the tree will revert back to the old branches and they will be grafted in again and into the new covenant, 11:23! Following the rapture (of Philadelphia & Smyrna), the "wild branches" of UNBELIEF (Laodicea, Sardis, Thyatira, etc.) will be cut out -- turned over to Satan/AC -- and Israel grafted back in.

Do you see 11:25, BBob? You are apparently "ignorant of this mystery" and "wise in your own conceits" that you cannot discern these things having to do with the olive tree. :tear:

How could Paul save them, if the "new" covenant was going to come to them until "end times"?

They convert into the church just like anyone else, BBob.

skypair

 

[skypair]

You deny the word of God.

Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

It was YOU said that His own received Him and the new covenant, BBob. That is the lie around here.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

And did He save them? NO.

You hold to, those who were broken off, as being "all" of Israel, when they were just some branches.

Like I said in the post you are probably now reading, you can't make "heads or tails" of the parable and are making accusations from "ignorance" and "conceit" per 11:25.

The NT over and over is talking to Israel, and you deny it. You will not even accept that Jesus came to His own, being "Israel".

Of course I will! It is YOU that deny that "His own received Him not" -- a truth that is repeated time and again in the NT.

You have not answers to why Paul said He might be able to save some of them.

It's in the post just above this one.

You have placed all your apples in the "end times" for Israel, when Jesus came to them. The Scripture says the "new" covenant was to be made to Israel.

Scripture says a new covenant WILL I make with the house of Israel and Judah." Jer 31:31 "unto them, when I SHALL take away their sins." Rom 11:27 Show me where it says it has been made already.

And after you answer that, could you please answer the Dan 9:24-27 timeline. Or how you make out "house of Israel/house of Judah" to be the few that did receive Christ. And why don't you see the Gentiles receiving the nc before Israel in the verses I gave you (Rom 10:19-21, 11:11, 29, 30-32)?

But lastly, it might be good for you to take a while to study the passage (Rom 11:15-27 before you let emotions get the better of your integrity.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

It was YOU said that His own received Him and the new covenant, BBob. That is the lie around here.

Jhn 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Are you saying Jesus lied??? He gave them power to become the sons of God, if that is not saved, then what is?


And did He save them? NO.

Like I said in the post you are probably now reading, you can't make "heads or tails" of the parable and are making accusations from "ignorance" and "conceit" per 11:25.

Of course I will! It is YOU that deny that "His own received Him not" -- a truth that is repeated time and again in the NT.

Again, all Israel is not Israel, As many as did receive Him, He gave them power to become the sons of God. Already are. I wonder why Moses was with Him on the Mt of configuration?

It's in the post just above this one.

Scripture says a new covenant WILL I make with the house of Israel and Judah." Jer 31:31 "unto them, when I SHALL take away their sins." Rom 11:27 Show me where it says it has been made already.

Rom 11:1¶I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.
Was Paul saved??????????

See below.

And after you answer that, could you please answer the Dan 9:24-27 timeline. Or how you make out "house of Israel/house of Judah" to be the few that did receive Christ. And why don't you see the Gentiles receiving the nc before Israel in the verses I gave you (Rom 10:19-21, 11:11, 29, 30-32)?

But lastly, it might be good for you to take a while to study the passage (Rom 11:15-27 before you let emotions get the better of your integrity.

I always use scripture, you just refuse to believe that the elect of Israel did receive Christ.

skypair

Hbr 8:13In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

The very first question you answered, says it all. "Israel" being who the bread was to.

Help me out, what or who was the Gentiles "grafted" in too?????

BBob,

 

[skypair]

Hbr 8:13In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

Unfortunately, BBob, that verse NOWHERE says it is Israel who received this new covenant yet that is who is required to receive by Jer 31:31. All you are acknowledging is that the new covanant has come --- which is what we all similarly acknowledge. (I was aware of that verse, BTW, and now you know why I didn't find it relevant to your comments.)

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

Unfortunately, BBob, that verse NOWHERE says it is Israel who received this new covenant yet that is who is required to receive by Jer 31:31. All you are acknowledging is that the new covanant has come --- which is what we all similarly acknowledge. (I was aware of that verse, BTW, and now you know why I didn't find it relevant to your comments.)

skypair

Was Paul, Peter, Silas, Barnubus etc under the "new" covenant????????????

I don't care how hard you try, you can not get away that the churches of the NT, were under the "new" covenant and the vast majority of them were Israelites.

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Again, Help me out, what or who was the Gentiles "grafted" in too?????



BBob,

 

[skypair]

I don't care how hard you try, you can not get away that the churches of the NT, were under the "new" covenant and the vast majority of them were Israelites.

Nobody is trying to, dude. But look at who is telling us about the new covenant -- not Peter who was sent to Israel. No, it's Paul who is the apostle to the GENTILES.

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Well, you're referencing the wrong covenant there, BBob. And He WAS sent to them to bless them but, in the end, He didn't. It turned out the He blessed a "nation that is no nation and a people that is no people."

Again, Help me out, what or who was the Gentiles "grafted" in too?????

BBob, no matter how you misread Rom 11, you can't make the "wild branches" into "natural branches." Whoever/whatever they were grafted into it isn't religious Israel anymore. You're gonna have to work that out for yourself apparently. May I recommend NT "contact lenses?" :laugh: You don't know the parables and mysteries as you should mainly because you can't "see" them. Try a "bi-vision" pair -- left eye "farsighted" OT and right eye "nearsighted" NT. :laugh:

I'm trying as hard as I can to "help you" but you're like the non-swimmer and the lifeguard --- you're trying to drown your only hope of survival.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

Nobody is trying to, dude. But look at who is telling us about the new covenant -- not Peter who was sent to Israel. No, it's Paul who is the apostle to the GENTILES.

Well, you're referencing the wrong covenant there, BBob. And He WAS sent to them to bless them but, in the end, He didn't. It turned out the He blessed a "nation that is no nation and a people that is no people."

Your mistake to assume I didn't know what covenant He was talking about. I was just showing the fathers of those under the "new" covenant.

BBob, no matter how you misread Rom 11, you can't make the "wild branches" into "natural branches." Whoever/whatever they were grafted into it isn't religious Israel anymore. You're gonna have to work that out for yourself apparently. May I recommend NT "contact lenses?" :laugh: You don't know the parables and mysteries as you should mainly because you can't "see" them. Try a "bi-vision" pair -- left eye "farsighted" OT and right eye "nearsighted" NT. :laugh:

This just proves you don't know what you are talking about, if you do not know who or what the Gentiles were grafted in too.

I'm trying as hard as I can to "help you" but you're like the non-swimmer and the lifeguard --- you're trying to drown your only hope of survival.

How can someone who does not know the simpilest thing of knowing who the Gentiles were "grafted" in to, help anyone.

skypair

Keep trying, you might come up with an answer.

BBob,

 

[skypair]

Keep trying, you might come up with an answer.

Proving once again "there is none so blind as him who cannot see." :tear:

Has it "registered" with you that the olive tree is religious privileges? That we DON'T sacrifice animals in the place of Christ anymore??? Or that Abraham, the "lump," didn't serve "the law??" What, indeed, is the difference between root, stem, and branches?? Are you ever going to "break this parable down" for me?

BBob, are you as insecure as your responses and non-answers to my questions indicate? Judging by the disconnect between your view of the kingdom and mine, I bet you are just dying to know the truth. But you are just too proud to ask someone who is merely a pilot (a retired one at that! :laugh: ), right? God doesn't talk "up" to pastors -- He talks "down" to them through some imperceptible "chain of command" that doesn't include "peons."

BBob, I'm a Bob, too. I think you ought to listen. Are you sure you are not a "Hymenaeus??" That you don't have it backwards and are blaspheming?? Explain Dan 9:24-27 literally. Explain those MK verses I gave you. You keep going back to those verses that identify us with Israel -- now "expand your horizons." Show the events you say have already happened, but to me are unanswered.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

Proving once again "there is none so blind as him who cannot see." :tear:

Has it "registered" with you that the olive tree is religious privileges? That we DON'T sacrifice animals in the place of Christ anymore??? Or that Abraham, the "lump," didn't serve "the law??" What, indeed, is the difference between root, stem, and branches?? Are you ever going to "break this parable down" for me?

What an answer of pure ignorance. The branches that are grafted in are the Gentiles and you call the branches they were grafted in to "religious privileges", jeepers..............

BBob, are you as insecure as your responses and non-answers to my questions indicate? Judging by the disconnect between your view of the kingdom and mine, I bet you are just dying to know the truth. But you are just too proud to ask someone who is merely a pilot (a retired one at that! :laugh: ), right? God doesn't talk "up" to pastors -- He talks "down" to them through some imperceptible "chain of command" that doesn't include "peons."

Believe me Bob, after veiwing your beliefs and answers, I have no desire at all for your understanding of scripture.

BBob, I'm a Bob, too. I think you ought to listen. Are you sure you are not a "Hymenaeus??" That you don't have it backwards and are blaspheming?? Explain Dan 9:24-27 literally. Explain those MK verses I gave you. You keep going back to those verses that identify us with Israel -- now "expand your horizons." Show the events you say have already happened, but to me are unanswered.

skypair

Under the "new" covenant, but not under the new covenant. Olive tree, but not an Olive tree or olive branches. Dan is over, get over it. I told you being a pilot and flying too high where there is little oxygen, can damage the brain. Not saying it has you, but gives me room to ponder.

BBob,

 

[skypair]

What an answer of pure ignorance. The branches that are grafted in are the Gentiles and you call the branches they were grafted in to "religious privileges", jeepers..............

Gentiles have the "religous privileges" now, do they not? You're just being cantankerous, aren't you. You really can see it but don't want to admit it.

Believe me Bob, after veiwing your beliefs and answers, I have no desire at all for your understanding of scripture.

What do you lose??? We're in a spiritual kingdom of Christ. Physical kingdom yet to come. Do you really see Jesus "in charge?"

I told you being a pilot and flying too high where there is little oxygen, can damage the brain. Not saying it has you, but gives me room to ponder.

Ponder some more, big guy. And get back on that diet! :laugh:

skypair

 

[TCGreek]

Mat 15:26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.

Who was the children that the bread belonged too??

Mat 10:6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Was Jesus attempting to give Israel the "new" covenant when He was here??? Did they refuse it?? If they did receive Christ, did they have the "new" covenant when they were given power to become the sons of God, and were not all of them Israel.

Why was James still preaching to the twelve tribes of Israel, If their salvation was to come in "end times"??



James, chapter 1

1: James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2: My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3: Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4: But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6: But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7: For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8: A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Where in scripture does it say that the "new" covenant would be to the Gentiles, instead of Israel.

Why would Jesus not give the bread for the children to the Gentile woman?

What does it mean that we become as one with Israel?

What were the Gentiles "grafted" in too?? If with the original Olive branches, who are they?

Rom 11:17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Why did Paul say that he might be able to save some of them cutoff because of unbelief, through his preaching?

Rom 11:12Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.

How could Paul save them, if the "new" covenant was going to come to them until "end times"?

You never answered my questions, are we living under the "new" covenant that was promised to Israel, and if not then are we really saved??

Can you give scripture where the covenant was going to be made with the Gentiles??


BBob,

BBob,

Part of the Abrahamic Covenant (AC) promised is that all the families of the earth will be blessed (Gen 12:3).

The New Covenant is a development of this part of the AC, and in this case to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. But we haven't seen the entire fulfillment of the NC.

Do you know of any OT prophecy that points to the church? The church was a mystery, and Christ purchased it with his blood.

But this in no way means that the church has replaced Israel.

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not think you are superior: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins." (Rom 11:25-27)

Has God already taken a number from among the Gentiles?

Has God removed the partial hardening of Israel?

Has her deliverer come from Zion and take away her sins?

 

[Brother Bob]

BBob,

Part of the Abrahamic Covenant (AC) promised is that all the families of the earth will be blessed (Gen 12:3).

The New Covenant is a development of this part of the AC, and in this case to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. But we haven't seen the entire fulfillment of the NC.

Do you have scripture it would be given in segiments? Do you have in scripture it would be given to the "elect" and not the rest?

Is all Israel, Israel?

Do you have scripture it would be given to the Gentile, or were they to be grafted in to it?

How can you change what God said He was going to do when He said He would make a new covenant, and you say it ended up with the Gentiles. Does not make sense.

Do you know of any OT prophecy that points to the church? The church was a mystery, and Christ purchased it with his blood.

There is OT scripture that the Messiah would come to Israel.

But this in no way means that the church has replaced Israel.

Church is a "gathering". Saved Israel and saved Gentiles in church, is a gathering.

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not think you are superior: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins." (Rom 11:25-27)

Don't you believe the Messiah has come either, I know pharasees don't believe it.

Has the "born again" had their sins covered already?

Has God already taken a number from among the Gentiles?

Has God removed the partial hardening of Israel? What about the ones who were not hardened????, Did they receive the "new" covenant???

Paul seem to think so. "see below"!

Even you should believe the "elect" were saved.

Romans 11:
7: What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8: (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9: And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.
11: I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12: Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?
13: For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them

Has her deliverer come from Zion and take away her sins?

By the blood of Christ.

Rom 11:13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Rom 11:14If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.

Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it

Are these elect under the "new" covenant????????

I gave scripture already.


BBob,

 

[TCGreek]

By the blood of Christ.

Rom 11:13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Rom 11:14If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.


Are these elect under the "new" covenant????????

I gave scripture already.


BBob,

Bbob,

There is a two-fold application of the NC.

The NC necessitated a mediator, and we see such in Messiah.

However, outside of God's promise to Israel, the blood of Messiah allows both Jews and Gentiles to be saved, in this mystery age of the Kingdom, as seen in the church (Eph 2).

But the NC has not been fully realized. There's still that partial hardening of Israel as a nation.

Yes, a remnant from among Israel has been saved and are being saved, but we're not speaking of Israel as a whole.

I have seen the fulfillment of what we read in Act 15:12-17 and Rom 11:25-27.

I'm afraid your interpretation does not do justice to the texts in question.

 

[skypair]

BBob,

Here seems to be the nub of your problem ---

Don't you believe the Messiah has come either, I know pharasees don't believe it.

He did NOT come as Israel was promised He would come to them building them a temple and ruling a PHYSICAL kingdom of world peace which we know as the "millennial kingdom." Instead He was slain on the cross and passed from this world.

If you say He has come back to reign and receive His PHYSICAL kingdom after the cross, you "lie and the truth is not in you." The really sad thing is you lie and you know it's a lie and you won't recant it. Just because you have solved half the equation (the new covenant is here) doesn't mean that you have the solution.

Moreover, if I understand it right, this earth will be as Eden for bounty and peace in the MK. And without Satan as it apparently was before Eve. Where do you see any of this??

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

Bbob,

There is a two-fold application of the NC.

Where in Jer does it give us this two-fold application??

The NC necessitated a mediator, and we see such in Messiah.

I thought the promise of the Messiah was to Israel?

However, outside of God's promise to Israel, the blood of Messiah allows both Jews and Gentiles to be saved, in this mystery age of the Kingdom, as seen in the church (Eph 2).

You said a "partial" were blinded, well that left the "elect" and the rest of the partial who were not "blinded". Are they under the New Covenant????

But the NC has not been fully realized. There's still that partial hardening of Israel as a nation.

Seems to me that Paul was the one who told us of the "partial" blindment and after the fullness of the Gentiles then they could be saved. Paul goes on to say that he might now, in his time "save some of them". What other justice can you put on that scripture.

Yes, a remnant from among Israel has been saved and are being saved, but we're not speaking of Israel as a whole.

Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

I agree, that Israel was a remnant! All Israel is not Israel, according to scripture.

I have seen the fulfillment of what we read in Act 15:12-17 and Rom 11:25-27.

I'm afraid your interpretation does not do justice to the texts in question.

TC; The text is very plain that it is talking of the blinded part of Israel and Paul felt he might be able to save some of them in his lifetime. There is no other interptation of that scripture.

BBob,