Understanding the 1000yr Reign?

[TCGreek]

But then the Holy Spirit came.
The way I view it is, that Christ came preaching that the kingdom was at hand. He went away so the Holy Spirit would come and dwell in all those that believe. The kingdom could grow to all the ends of the earth.

I enjoy talking with you TC.

But the coming of the Spirit is not the same as the fullness of the Kingdom.

Here's what the verses look like:

6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Why would Jesus say it is not for them to know about the fullness of the kingdom, but then turns around and says that it is coming with the Spirit?

I don't see that as a possibility.

 

[Brother Bob]

Outsider,

I believe that with the coming of Jesus we see the presence of the kingdom in his ministry but not the fullness of it. Why do I say that?

Well, Jesus says, "But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you" (Matt 12:28).

But then he says that Kingdom is not here, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority" (Acts 1:7).

Now we have the mystery form of the Kingdom but not its fullness.

Its not here in the flesh.

 

[Brother Bob]

But the coming of the Spirit is not the same as the fullness of the Kingdom.

Here's what the verses look like:

6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Why would Jesus say it is not for them to know about the fullness of the kingdom, but then turns around and says that it is coming with the Spirit?

I don't see that as a possibility.

It shouldn't be hard to see when that is exactly what He said:

Luk 17:20¶And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Luk 17:22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see [it].

You are saying just what Jesus said not to say. "lo here! or, lo there!

BBob,

 

[TCGreek]

Of course it is spiritual. John only saw the "souls" OF THEM, that were beheaded.
Not the souls were beheaded as Skypair mocked, but the bodies of the saints were beheaded and John saw their "souls" and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Also, This was the first resurrection when Christ came out of the grave and many of the bodies also came out of the grave after His resurrection and went into that Holy City.

If that is not a resurrection, what is one??

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power

Blessed and Holy is he that hath a part in Christ, for on such the second death hath no power.

BBob,

"4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. "

The only way these saints can come back to life, is for their souls to unite with their glorified bodies, so that they can reign with Christ for 1000yrs.

Souls don't die, so it must be a unity of souls with glorified bodies.

 

[TCGreek]

It shouldn't be hard to see when that is exactly what He said:

Luk 17:20¶And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Luk 17:22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see [it].

You are saying just what Jesus said not to say. "lo here! or, lo there!

BBob,

I understand Jesus to be referring to the MK in Acts 1:7.

Why would he point them to the future?

 

[Brother Bob]

"4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. "

The only way these saints can come back to life, is for their souls to unite with their glorified bodies, so that they can reign with Christ for 1000yrs.

Souls don't die, so it must be a unity of souls with glorified bodies.

Don't know what translation you are using:

Rev 20: KJV
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Souls do die when they sin, and come to life by the blood, but that is not what its saying here.

It is saying the souls lived and reigned with Christ. Souls do live, after the body dies.

And I saw thrones; and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them; and the souls of those beheaded on account of the testimony of Jesus, and on account of the word of God; and those who had not done homage to the beast nor to his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and hand; and they lived and reigned with the Christ a thousand years:

 

[TCGreek]

Don't know what translation you are using:

Rev 20: KJV
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Souls do die when they sin, and come to life by the blood, but that is not what its saying here.

It is saying the souls lived and reigned with Christ. Souls do live, after the body dies.

Souls only die as a separation from God because of sin. But it's a separation.

Now consider Rev 6:9-11:

"9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been."

They were slain as living people with bodies like what you and I have.

Coming to life to reign must only mean the receiving of glorified bodies to reign with Christ in the MK.

As a footnote, the KJV is not my Bible of choice.

 

[Brother Bob]

Souls only die as a separation from God because of sin. But it's a separation.

Now consider Rev 6:9-11:

"9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been."

They were slain as living people with bodies like what you and I have.

Coming to life to reign must only mean the receiving of glorified bodies to reign with Christ in the MK.

You see TC; you have no scripture for that. You are supposing that is what it means. The souls were already glorified and already alive, they did not have to come to life, but only they "lived and reigned" with Christ. Be the same as if I came and lived with you for 3 or 4 months or so...........

As a footnote, the KJV is not my Bible of choice.

First I will answer your footnote;
The New and American Standard is not my Bible of choice either.

BBob,

 

[TCGreek]

First I will answer your footnote;
The New and American Standard is not my Bible of choice either.

BBob,

Now we clear about that, let's get back to business. :thumbs:

 

[Brother Bob]

I get back with you tomorrow TC; have a good night, you and yours. Love,

BBob, :sleeping_2:

 

[TCGreek]

I get back with you tomorrow TC; have a good night, you and yours. Love,

BBob, :sleeping_2:

Thanks, Brother Bob, and the same to you and yours. God bless.

 

[convicted1]

RE: Understanding the 1000 year reign

Here is a question for those who are for and against the 1000 year reign.

Where does Ezekiel chapter 37 come into this...or does it? I have a "take" on it, but I want study more before I post on it. Please let me know what y'all think.

Willis

 

[skypair]

I have no recollection of you saying anything like that, only vitriol, such as this post.

So I suppose that my Christ-like vitriol is going to keep you from responding intelligently to my post just as the Pharisees, sensing that Jesus was talking bad about them, were "stopped in their tracks," eh? :laugh:

Good ole, BBob. So predictable. :sleeping_2:

skypair

 

[skypair]

Disciples: "So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

TC, the problem is that BBob does not "see" the physical kingdom of Christ that the disciples were talking about EVER coming into existence. Apparently it is rapture of the spiritual kingdom right into ("deliveered up to") the kingdom of God. So when you ask about the physical kingdom, as any OT disciple would, he is flummoxed. He has no such concept to present.

But he didn't. Instead, he pointed them to a future kingdom reality.

Basically told them it was not given to them to know when He would return as the "Lion of Judah" to reign on earth on David's throne!

skypair

 

[skypair]

The way I view it is, that Christ came preaching that the kingdom was at hand. He went away so the Holy Spirit would come and dwell in all those that believe. The kingdom could grow to all the ends of the earth.

Here's another view for you to contemplate: Adam to Jesus birth was the kingdom of man (notice that prophets and the yet coming Christ were called the "son of man") ---- during Christ's life, the kingdom of Messiah was on earth/"at hand" --- since Christ, we are under the kingdom of the Spirit --- during the trib and MK, Christ's earthly kingdom will be established (the one He delivers up to the Father) --- the last earthly kingdom is the kingdom of God, the perfect, eternal kingdom.

Notice -- this is all about the facets of an earthly kingdom. God reserves His perfect spiritual kingdom for now to/within Christ and believers only.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

TC, the problem is that BBob does not "see" the physical kingdom of Christ that the disciples were talking about EVER coming into existence. Apparently it is rapture of the spiritual kingdom right into ("deliveered up to") the kingdom of God. So when you ask about the physical kingdom, as any OT disciple would, he is flummoxed. He has no such concept to present.

Basically told them it was not given to them to know when He would return as the "Lion of Judah" to reign on earth on David's throne!

skypair

You added to reign on earth part!!!!!!!!!

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Here's another view for you to contemplate: Adam to Jesus birth was the kingdom of man (notice that prophets and the yet coming Christ were called the "son of man") ---- during Christ's life, the kingdom of Messiah was on earth/"at hand" --- since Christ, we are under the kingdom of the Spirit --- during the trib and MK, Christ's earthly kingdom will be established (the one He delivers up to the Father) --- the last earthly kingdom is the kingdom of God, the perfect, eternal kingdom.

Notice -- this is all about the facets of an earthly kingdom. God reserves His perfect spiritual kingdom for now to/within Christ and believers only.

skypair

And just how many Kingdoms does Christ have anyway????

BBob,

 

[skypair]

Also, This was the first resurrection when Christ came out of the grave and many of the bodies also came out of the grave after His resurrection and went into that Holy City.

If that is not a resurrection, what is one??

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power

This is SO bogus!!

1) Nobody said it wasn't a "resurrection."

2) It certainly is NOT the "first resurrection!" By very definition (Rev 20:4) the first resurrection involves a) (as you said) SOULS, not bodies! b) involves those who were beheaded for the WITNESS OF CHRIST -- of which NONE of the saints living even in Jesus time could have known. Even the thief on the cross could only say, "Remember me when Thou enterest Thy kingdom." They couldn't be "witnesses" to the sacrificial payment for sin NOR of His kingdom yet.

Two more points: 1) Mt 27:52-53 is the "firstfruits" spoken of in 1Cor 15:23, period! 2) The "first resurrection" (aka: "resurrection of the just") is the resurrection of the trib and OT saints into Messiah's Millennial Kingdom. Where else to you suspect that Job will appear and in his flesh see his Redeemer??? Job 19:25-28 Or does it give you pleasure to deny them their inheritance and to deny God's promises?

skypair

 

[skypair]

You added to reign on earth part!!!!!!!!!,

I don't get this statement. Has He already reigned on earth? Or are you just agreeing by saying that there is no future reign on earth (In which case you are cutting out a whole bunch of scripture as TC says.).

skypair

 

[skypair]

And just how many Kingdoms does Christ have anyway????,

That's a good question, BBob. Are you familiar with dispensationalism? I broke them down in order to show who was "ordained" with the truth on the earth at any given time.

Jesus "kingdom of heaven" parables, and especially Mt 13, speak of 7 earthly administrations of Christ over an earth kingdom and the judgment that follows all leading into His reigning presence in His MK on earth. The point of all these parables seems to be that Christ rules the earthly kingdom INDIRECTLY during the KoH between Adam and the 2nd coming.

But siginificantly, there are two eras that speak of the salvation of the whole man -- body, soul, and (you always leave this out) spirit, 1Thes 5:23. The OT speaks to the justification of the soul/conscience before God. It is "phase 1" of salvation.

The NT is "phase 2" where we are simultaneously justified in soul and sanctified in/by the Spirit. This is critical, BBob, because the OT saints were never sanctified in their spirits and so the MK is for them to be resurrected and prepared in spirit (sanctified, Ezek 37:14, etal.) to receive the kingdom of God.

Now in the future there is also the kingdom that you know about -- the kingdom of God come to earth (after it is delivered up, right?). This is the last "phase of salvation where all who are justified and sanctified are glorified in body together into the "eternal kingdom." Of course, technically, this glorification of the body happened to the church/NT saints preMK into NJ whereas to the MK saints it happens postMK to live in NH/NE (though they like us are initially "caught up" to NJ).

Do you see the purpose now for the earthly MK?? It has to do with the total redemption of man to God.

skypair