Understanding The Protestant /Catholic Divide

[DaveXR650]

Well from an outsiders perspective it doesn’t look like Protestantism is getting more refined, it looks like it’s getting more fractured and divided.

There's some truth in that. But what I was saying was that out of that will come improvement and correction. Contrast that with a super powerful structure that increases in error and power and you end up with an apostate religion, filled with corruption and no way to fix it.

There seems to be an incredible amount of fear of having these kinds discussions, I don’t know.

I don't know either. I'm fairly new here myself. It may be that there is no point because like you just said you put a premium on one central voice, the Pope, and his pronouncements are at least equal to scripture. So there is probably nothing worth discussing. The actual theology would be worth discussing but the built in structure - the Pope, the priesthood, and the corruption kind of render all that moot.

 

[Cathode]

There's some truth in that. But what I was saying was that out of that will come improvement and correction. Contrast that with a super powerful structure that increases in error and power and you end up with an apostate religion, filled with corruption and no way to fix it.

I don't know either. I'm fairly new here myself. It may be that there is no point because like you just said you put a premium on one central voice, the Pope, and his pronouncements are at least equal to scripture. So there is probably nothing worth discussing. The actual theology would be worth discussing but the built in structure - the Pope, the priesthood, and the corruption kind of render all that moot.

How do you deal with all the thousands conflicted voices in Protestantism each with their own interpretation of Scripture. I’d find that exasperating.

If Protestantism was a single belief it would be far more convincing I reckon.

If I gave up Catholicism, I’d have to found my own church on my own interpretation “ The Cathodian Church “. I’d be Elder Cathode preaching my hairy chested opinion of scripture.
That would be fine until some member of my flock decides to have a different opinion of scripture from me and breaks away forming the Reformed Cathodians taking half my flock with him and endangering their souls to hell. Because everyone would know that The Cathodian Church is the true Church that teaches scripture rightly.

I don’t know bro, seems like a terrible folly on my part, especially all those poor people trusting my fallible opinion of scripture.

 

[37818]

Well my College dictionary has the following definition of Holy Father, n. a tilte of the Pope.

Jesus taught, ". . . But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. . . ." Matthew 23:8-10.

All the Catholic Church Bible translations have a footnote excusing addressing some others as father contrary to Christ's instruction.

Now there are spiritual fathers, 1 John 2:13, ". . . I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. . . ." Nowhere are they called "father" by an individual. Though that may be supposed by some interperters, the Apostle Paul called Timothy his son in the faith, 1 Timothy 1:2, ". . . Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: . . ."

The use of "Holy Father" is found in John 17:11, in Jesus' prayer, ". . . but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. . . ."

 

[AustinC]

Well from an outsiders perspective it doesn’t look like Protestantism is getting more refined, it looks like it’s getting more fractured and divided.
What Protestantism needs is a Pope to be the final arbiter of Scriptures interpretation to settle all the conflicted interpretations and doctrines.



There seems to be an incredible amount of fear of having these kinds discussions, I don’t know.

You seem to lump all that is not Rome into Protestantism. One only has to look at the vast spectrum of Roman groups to see there is little consensus in your own camp.
But, the body of Christ is not splintered. It remains strong. You will find the body of Christ in many sects, even some are found in Rome (a small remnant, but there is some).
While the vast majority in Rome are tares, you will also find tares in the line of Protestantism. Some sects have more tares than others. So, your only fault here is your incapacity to see the vast amount of tares growing in Catholicism. In fact, it is so bad that you don't recognize your pope is a tare..not wheat. That should cause you to feel terror for your sect. Your head is a tare, not wheat.

 

[Reformed]

RC Sproul and White Horse Inn do not believe as the Protestant Reformers believed. The Reformers wrote voluminous commentaries on the Revelation and 2 Thessalonians 2, proving the Roman Church is Mystery Babylon, her Pope in office, Antichrist. Sproul was a Preterist as, I am sure, Horton is also. Preterism is a Jesuit invention, as is Futurism, exposed and refuted by the Reformers and Puritans. Protestant Baptist Benjamin Keach wrote extensively on the subject. To say justification is the heart of the division between Protestants and Catholics is an absurdly politically correct cover-up as to the true nature of the murdering great whore as detailed in Revelation and born out in Church history.

R.C. Sproul was a partial Preterist. There is a marked difference between Preterism and partial Preterism.

 

[Cathode]

Well my College dictionary has the following definition of Holy Father, n. a tilte of the Pope.

Jesus taught, ". . . But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. . . ." Matthew 23:8-10.

All the Catholic Church Bible translations have a footnote excusing addressing some others as father contrary to Christ's instruction.

Now there are spiritual fathers, 1 John 2:13, ". . . I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. . . ." Nowhere are they called "father" by an individual. Though that may be supposed by some interperters, the Apostle Paul called Timothy his son in the faith, 1 Timothy 1:2, ". . . Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: . . ."

The use of "Holy Father" is found in John 17:11, in Jesus' prayer, ". . . but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. . . ."

“Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.”

 

[DaveXR650]

Yes Cathode, there is a huge diversity of teaching in Protestantism. But really, if my only other choice is to wrap myself up in a system that I know is corrupt I would rather not do that. And, most of the groups you speak of have a few basic central doctrines that they are in agreement on. The Puritans, in Owen's time came up with 16 principles that they determined were the minimum things to agree on among different groups for fellowship. That's not really that complicated. Your current Pope is all over the place on everything from politics to theology in a way I have never seen an individual church do. If they did - we'd just split.

 

[DaveXR650]

That would be fine until some member of my flock decides to have a different opinion of scripture from me and breaks away forming the Reformed Cathodians taking half my flock with him and endangering their souls to hell. Because everyone would know that The Cathodian Church is the true Church that teaches scripture rightly.

You sure you ain't ever been to our church?

 

[Reformed]

I have learned that I need to ask Catholics what Catholics believe, rather than hearing what Protestants claim Catholics believe.

Having been raised as a Roman Catholic, I know what it believes. Rome does not believe that a person is justified for all time at a point of conversion. In fact, Roman soteriology is so confusing that very few individual Roman Catholics can tell you for sure how a person can know that they will go to heaven. I have family members that think just making it to an indefinite period of time in unbiblical purgatory will be good enough.

I have found that when talking to interested Roman Catholics, it is better to talk about what biblical soteriology is then to try to dissect and dismantle Roman soteriology. In this was the truth is the subject being examined, not the falsehood.

 

[Cathode]

You sure you ain't ever been to our church?

Well you’re always welcome to the Cathodian Church, you won’t get the fullness of truth, but you will get the fullness of Elder Cathodes fallible opinion of Scripture.
The music ministry isn’t too bad either.

 

[37818]

“Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.”

1 Corinthians 4:15, the Apostle Paul as a father to the Corinthian church. But nowhere does it say he was addressed by the title father.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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