Understanding The Protestant /Catholic Divide

[utilyan]

but you CAN hinder them

Thats like blindfolding a blind person, If they already totally depraved, theres nothing to hinder

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Thats like blindfolding a blind person, If they already totally depraved, theres nothing to hinder

A blindfolded person that hears the preaching of the gospel is in an infinitely better position than a blindfolded person in a Catholic Church that does not hear the gospel.

Hence the Catholic Church hindering them.

 

[AustinC]

There is not "faiths". There is One Faith. And yes, if you are Born Again you should switch your religion from Catholicism to Christianity just as I did. And I don't care if that Christianity is Mennonite, Amish, Presbyterian, Free Will Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist or Lutheran, but a Saved Christian MUST join a Christian denomination.

I simply point out that some of the denominations above are, in general, no better than the RCC.
Many Pentecostal groups are cults who worship a different Jesus. Some Presbyterian and Lutheran denominations are so liberal that they deny the deity of Christ Jesus (again another Jesus). Within the Mennonite/Amish world is some massive heresy. The spectrum of varying denominational beliefs in the Mennonite/Amish world is great. Some are cultish and others deny the deity of Christ.
Methodists...just terribly liberal.
So, I care about where people go within the spectrum of Protestantism. There are some horrific denominations within the Protestant umbrella and thus the RCC has some valid complaints as those Protestant groups are more heretical than Rome.

 

[Yeshua1]

I simply point out that some of the denominations above are, in general, no better than the RCC.
Many Pentecostal groups are cults who worship a different Jesus. Some Presbyterian and Lutheran denominations are so liberal that they deny the deity of Christ Jesus (again another Jesus). Within the Mennonite/Amish world is some massive heresy. The spectrum of varying denominational beliefs in the Mennonite/Amish world is great. Some are cultish and others deny the deity of Christ.
Methodists...just terribly liberal.
So, I care about where people go within the spectrum of Protestantism. There are some horrific denominations within the Protestant umbrella and thus the RCC has some valid complaints as those Protestant groups are more heretical than Rome.

True, as many are into word of faith heresies, and post modern theology!

 

[atpollard]

Thats like blindfolding a blind person, If they already totally depraved, theres nothing to hinder

A small knit to pick, but "Total Depravity" is the breath of our depravity, not its depth.
It does not mean that all men are "totally blind" (to use your analogy), rather it means that because of Adam nobody has clear vision, perfect hearing or an acute sense of touch ... we are all wearing dark sunglasses, we have wax in our ears and we have mittens on our hands ... so what we see, hear and feel is not accurate, but is all tainted to some degree.

That is why we need trust what God sees and hears and feels more than what we think we see, hear and feel.

 

[Walter]

I simply point out that some of the denominations above are, in general, no better than the RCC.
Many Pentecostal groups are cults who worship a different Jesus. Some Presbyterian and Lutheran denominations are so liberal that they deny the deity of Christ Jesus (again another Jesus). Within the Mennonite/Amish world is some massive heresy. The spectrum of varying denominational beliefs in the Mennonite/Amish world is great. Some are cultish and others deny the deity of Christ.
Methodists...just terribly liberal.
So, I care about where people go within the spectrum of Protestantism. There are some horrific denominations within the Protestant umbrella and thus the RCC has some valid complaints as those Protestant groups are more heretical than Rome.

I simply point out that some of the denominations above are, in general, no better than the RCC.
Many Pentecostal groups are cults who worship a different Jesus. Some Presbyterian and Lutheran denominations are so liberal that they deny the deity of Christ Jesus (again another Jesus). Within the Mennonite/Amish world is some massive heresy. The spectrum of varying denominational beliefs in the Mennonite/Amish world is great. Some are cultish and others deny the deity of Christ.
Methodists...just terribly liberal.
So, I care about where people go within the spectrum of Protestantism. There are some horrific denominations within the Protestant umbrella and thus the RCC has some valid complaints as those Protestant groups are more heretical than Rome.


The American Baptist churches in our area deny the deity of Christ, the Virgin Birth, the physical resurrection of Jesus, etc. Why don't you include them in your list of denoms that are more heretical than The Catholic Church?

 

[Walter]

The American Baptist churches in our area deny the deity of Christ, the Virgin Birth, the physical resurrection of Jesus, etc. Why don't you include them in your list of denoms that are more heretical than The Catholic Church?

 

[utilyan]

A blindfolded person that hears the preaching of the gospel is in an infinitely better position than a blindfolded person in a Catholic Church that does not hear the gospel.

Hence the Catholic Church hindering them.

Presuming he COOPERATES and does the good work of accepting to listen to the gospel at all.

 

[AustinC]

The American Baptist churches in our area deny the deity of Christ, the Virgin Birth, the physical resurrection of Jesus, etc. Why don't you include them in your list of denoms that are more heretical than The Catholic Church?

I am unaware of the American Baptist Conference. There is no doubt in my mind that there are some terrible Baptist churches in this world. Do you have a link to this denomination and their statement of faith?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I am unaware of the American Baptist Conference. There is no doubt in my mind that there are some terrible Baptist churches in this world. Do you have a link to this denomination and their statement of faith?

I believe Walter is referring to the follow-on to the Northern Baptist Convention/American Baptist Convention which has changed its name in the last 15 or so years. And yes the Convention was riddled with Liberalism and Modernism. For these reasons, Fundamentalists and others left the NBC by the late 40s.

 

[Cathode]

What don't I believe?

I believe a person can do wrong and that all people are totally depraved and can do nothing BUT do wrong until the moment that God's Grace takes ahold of that person's life.

You cannot love God if you do not have Salvation for said person would still be depraved. Submitting to God's design of Salvation does not give you leverage over God, rather it gives God leverage over you.



You cannot prevent their Salvation if it's God's will, but you CAN hinder them, which is what I was saying. Catholicism will hinder God's elect and delay the day of their salvation through its incorrect Gospel.


They are not already Saved. They are in the Catholic Church. Therefore in their unsaved state they are misled by doctrines of salvation through works, which the Catholic Church upholds in their teaching of penance and purgatory and they never hear God's Gospel.

There is not "faiths". There is One Faith. And yes, if you are Born Again you should switch your religion from Catholicism to Christianity just as I did. And I don't care if that Christianity is Mennonite, Amish, Presbyterian, Free Will Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist or Lutheran, but a Saved Christian MUST join a Christian denomination.

You confuse works with good works which are by Grace, it’s called Love and Love is Eternal.

Protestantism is Faith alone, but Catholics are Faith and Love together. Since Love is greater than Faith, you would sooner get to heaven by Love alone, however neither is true, both Faith and Love together is essential.

I see Protestants sneering at Love all the time, dismissing it as mere works, not seeing it as good works inspired by grace.
They don’t believe Love is greater than faith as scripture says, they reduce Love to lower than dirt status as mere works, and hoist Faith higher than Love, which is totally anti scriptural.

 

[AustinC]

You confuse works with good works which are by Grace, it’s called Love and Love is Eternal.

Protestantism is Faith alone, but Catholics are Faith and Love together. Since Love is greater than Faith, you would sooner get to heaven by Love alone, however neither is true, both Faith and Love together is essential.

I see Protestants sneering at Love all the time, dismissing it as mere works, not seeing it as good works inspired by grace.
They don’t believe Love is greater than faith as scripture says, they reduce Love to lower than dirt status as mere works, and hoist Faith higher than Love, which is totally anti scriptural.

You are making a huge broad brush statement. The truth is that the vast majority of Roman Catholics have no connection with God and thus have no connection with Love. Look at the gang members in the Italian mafia, Russian mafia and many Latin cartels who go to mass and yet brutally kill others who offend them. No love exists, yet they go to mass.
What I note is that you are incapable of looking at scripture and addressing the entire context of a passage. At best you snag a verse from someplace and then couldn't care less if you actually connect your interpretation to the context. What you do is exactly what Muslims and cult members do with the Bible. By doing that, you lose all credibility with anyone who seeks to truly understand the whole of God's word.
Second, you speak with no depth regarding love and faith. You seem oblivious to Paul's argument from Romans 1 through 11 as he lays out the gospel and justification by faith. You seem oblivious regarding God and how God expresses love. For example, when God justly casts unrepentant sinners in hell, He is acting with love.

I suggest you let go of your generalizations as your crutch for being a Roman Catholic and instead open your Bible, throw away your traditions and biases and observe what the Bible alone is saying. It is God's word. It is 1000% better than the church traditions and it always rules over the traditions of men and demands that bad traditions be thrown away.

 

[utilyan]

Look at the gang members in the Italian mafia, Russian mafia and many Latin cartels who go to mass and yet brutally kill others who offend them.

So what? Its not like you believe how they behave makes a difference especially in regards to salvation.

 

[atpollard]

So what?

This is the "what" his statement was supporting:

The truth is that the vast majority of Roman Catholics have no connection with God and thus have no connection with Love.

... the "so what", therefore, being that all "good works" are not being done as an expression of Love (as was implied in the post by Cathode that AustinC was responding to.)

Its not like you believe how they behave makes a difference especially in regards to salvation.

Does the RCC believe they are saved? They attend Mass and receive the sacraments and have not been excommunicated?
(I am a little fuzzy on the Catholic view of 'salvation' ... "are you saved" or "will you be saved" ... I THINK Catholics believe "are saved" as part of the Church - so starting with baptism into the Church.)

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

I simply point out that some of the denominations above are, in general, no better than the RCC.
Many Pentecostal groups are cults who worship a different Jesus. Some Presbyterian and Lutheran denominations are so liberal that they deny the deity of Christ Jesus (again another Jesus). Within the Mennonite/Amish world is some massive heresy. The spectrum of varying denominational beliefs in the Mennonite/Amish world is great. Some are cultish and others deny the deity of Christ.
Methodists...just terribly liberal.
So, I care about where people go within the spectrum of Protestantism. There are some horrific denominations within the Protestant umbrella and thus the RCC has some valid complaints as those Protestant groups are more heretical than Rome.

And some Baptists are so liberal they deny the deity of Christ.

You'll find heretics in every denomination, yet on the whole those denominations are the most accurate and the ones where the Gospel is actually present.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Presuming he COOPERATES and does the good work of accepting to listen to the gospel at all.

Listening to and understanding the Gospel is not a good work. It is possible only because of God's Grace whether it be Prevenient or Irresistible.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is the "what" his statement was supporting:

... the "so what", therefore, being that all "good works" are not being done as an expression of Love (as was implied in the post by Cathode that AustinC was responding to.)


Does the RCC believe they are saved? They attend Mass and receive the sacraments and have not been excommunicated?
(I am a little fuzzy on the Catholic view of 'salvation' ... "are you saved" or "will you be saved" ... I THINK Catholics believe "are saved" as part of the Church - so starting with baptism into the Church.)

NO catholic has assurance are right now saved, as their doctrine of Justification requires them to cooperate with God in the graces of the sacraments well enough to merit eternal life in the end!

 

[utilyan]

NO catholic has assurance are right now saved, as their doctrine of Justification requires them to cooperate with God in the graces of the sacraments well enough to merit eternal life in the end!

No one who trusts God REQUIRES assurance. They just do God's will rather than spiritual gold-diggers.

 

[Yeshua1]

No one who trusts God REQUIRES assurance. They just do God's will rather than spiritual gold-diggers.

So you are positive after death Heaven, and not Purgatory?

 

[utilyan]

So you are positive after death Heaven, and not Purgatory?

If there is anyone in hell I want to go there first and get them out.