Can someone explain where we get this modern "New Testament" idea of exacting 10% of a person's gross wages out of the Old Testament law, and whether the Old Testament law of tithing applies to the New Testament church today while other ceremonial laws do not, such as passover feasts, feasts of tabernacles, etc.
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Understanding the "tithe"
- Thread starter AresMan
- Start date
Well, if I tithe, it better be only after I give a bullock on the altar, three lambs, two turtle doves and a partridge in a pear tree. I have a real hard time with the Torah.
You won't get an argument from me about tithing and the erroneous teaching that it magically applies to God's church today. That is a guilt-trip to try to force giving upon weak-minded christians.
You won't get an argument from me about tithing and the erroneous teaching that it magically applies to God's church today. That is a guilt-trip to try to force giving upon weak-minded christians.
The book of Acts details people giving to support the early Church. However, the Church was much different than it is today.
Further I would add some Christians, I have observed, have the attitude that in giving tithe to their local Church body that they are sufficiently being a good steward of what God has given them.
To this I say "no". God wants US to give to others as freely as we have received. It's not enough to give to a church or charity and go on your way.
Remember also, churches and charities have their own bills to pay. So it's more than probable that less then 100% is going to actually help those in need.
Further I would add some Christians, I have observed, have the attitude that in giving tithe to their local Church body that they are sufficiently being a good steward of what God has given them.
To this I say "no". God wants US to give to others as freely as we have received. It's not enough to give to a church or charity and go on your way.
Remember also, churches and charities have their own bills to pay. So it's more than probable that less then 100% is going to actually help those in need.
Don't get me wrong! Supporting organizations that have resources to help people beyond your own individual capability is a good thing, but we must exercise wisdom in what to do with the blessings God has given us.
After all we will have to account for our deeds.
Many churches were the only source of relief that evacuees from the hurricanes had. Without the financial support of their members, things would have been worse for thousands of people.
After all we will have to account for our deeds.
Many churches were the only source of relief that evacuees from the hurricanes had. Without the financial support of their members, things would have been worse for thousands of people.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Rom. 6:14. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
1 Cor. 15:56. The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57. but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.
1 Cor. 15:56. The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57. but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.
From what I have observed, the "tithe" was a ceremonial law, "offerings" were always something that was sacrificed or burned on an altar. Therefore, the only term that seems to show up in the New Testament for giving is... "giving", "gifts", etc. I think it would do us well to just stick to the word "gift".
"Remember also, churches and charities have their own bills to pay. So it's more than probable that less then 100% is going to actually help those in need."
But I would not have all of my donation to my church going to help those in need. As members of our church, aren't we responsible for making sure the church pays its bills? We don't just give in order to have it go out to the community. We give to pay the lights, the heat, the cooler, the water, not to mention to pay our dear pastors!
I have no problem with calling it a "gift" rather than a "tithe". Im not really worried about it. But as members of our churches we have a responsibility to support our church. Its more than just giving to a charity like the Red Cross. We have more of a responsibility in our own local church.
But I would not have all of my donation to my church going to help those in need. As members of our church, aren't we responsible for making sure the church pays its bills? We don't just give in order to have it go out to the community. We give to pay the lights, the heat, the cooler, the water, not to mention to pay our dear pastors!
I have no problem with calling it a "gift" rather than a "tithe". Im not really worried about it. But as members of our churches we have a responsibility to support our church. Its more than just giving to a charity like the Red Cross. We have more of a responsibility in our own local church.
Brother James
New Member
The tithe was the inheritance of the tribe of Levi.
Michael Hobbs
New Member
Yet we see Abram gave a tithe in Gen. 14, some 400+ years before the law was given. So, even though it was performed as part of the ceremonial law, it's more than just ceremonial law.
Why did Abram give a tithe to Melchizedek?
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Who is our priest?
Hebrews 5 tells us Jesus is our high priest.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
So all Christians should tithe to Jesus via the local church (the body of Christ).
During Jesus' ministry He made use of the gifts of others to support Him and his disciples. Giving to a church, ministry, or charity is not wrong and should be encouraged. (See my second response above)
If your local church body is a blessing to its members and the community in which it resides, support it however you can.
But if a person believes they can simply tithe to a local church and that is the extent of their stewardship responsibility, they are robbing themselves of the blessings God will bestow.
Bapmom, I'm sure we are in agreement here.
Would you believe I have actually met atheists who attend a church, GIVE TITHE regularly, sing hymns, and even pray.
I've asked them why they do these things if they don't believe in God. I get different answers, but mostly it boils down to the fact that it makes them feel good about themselves to give their time and money in helping their community.
Jesus instructs us through Scripture that our love must exceed that of the publicans, tax-collectors, etc. Giving as God has provided me to do has been such a blessing in my life, I try to encourage it as much as I can in the lives of other believers.
God bless.
Would you believe I have actually met atheists who attend a church, GIVE TITHE regularly, sing hymns, and even pray.
I've asked them why they do these things if they don't believe in God. I get different answers, but mostly it boils down to the fact that it makes them feel good about themselves to give their time and money in helping their community.
Jesus instructs us through Scripture that our love must exceed that of the publicans, tax-collectors, etc. Giving as God has provided me to do has been such a blessing in my life, I try to encourage it as much as I can in the lives of other believers.
God bless.
PASTOR MHG
New Member
It has always been puzzling to me how many are opposed to dispensationalism, but one mention of 10% going to the Lord and everyone is a dispensationalist...HA HA HA!
Ares
You would be amazed at how many people say that they have studied the tithe, but are stunned when you ask them, "So what does God mean when He said: 'thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.'?"
You would be amazed at how many people say that they have studied the tithe, but are stunned when you ask them, "So what does God mean when He said: 'thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.'?"
Okay, look, everyone, tithe means "tenth", so as a matter of custom and good stewardship, I return 10% of my income to the Lord. If you feel so called, then I invite you to do likewise. If you feel called to return something else, or some other amount, then by all means do it.
It seems that there's a movement in teh church that berates those who tithe. You'd think it was some sort of "giver's lib" movement. They'll be burning their offering envelopes next.
Regardless of how a person feels about what they should give, the fact is that all who attend a church have a responsibility to financially support that church. Heck, it costs $6 for a fast-food lunch and $9 for a movie. You should at least be dropping in that much when the plate goes by.
Under the Mosiac Law, the Israelites were commanded to pay tithes at various times throughout the year. The various tithes together add up to about 30 percent, not 10 percent. The tithes of Israel supported the ministry of the priesthood, the government of the day. The tithes commanded to Israel were in reality a form of taxation. The church is nowhere instructed to pay tithes, as such. Paul tells the Corinthian assembly to give regularly, proportionally, and sacrificially (1Cor 16:1-2; 2Cor 8:1-5). This giving is to flow from their personal commitment to the Lord and is to be motivated by their love for the Lord Jesus and desire to promote the spread of the gospel. Giving under grace should not be motivated by a fear that “if I don’t give it willingly, God will take it anyway”. Nor should we give to the Lord with expectation of getting more back than we give. This “seed faith” tithing is popular in some groups, but does not find support in the Word of God. All giving should be done with full understanding that everything we have is from the Lord and it is He who has given us the ability to work and acquire wealth. While recognizing that the tithe was a command to Israel and not the church, believers should be very cautious in using their liberty as an excuse to give less than the Old Testament saints. To who much is given, much shall be required (Luke 12:48). Giving under grace is a recognition that God owns it all – we give back a portion of that with which He has entrusted us out of gratitude and love.
Was Abraham commanded to give a tithe? Also notice from the passage of what Abraham tithed to Melchizedek: the spoils of war. Also notice that he then gave the rest back to the king of Sodom. He kept none of it for himself. He did not, however, tithe of his own possessions.
Everything just logically falls into place, doesn't it? That correlation just jumps off the page. It is so obvious that we are obligated to sign 10% of our paycheck to a church collection group.
Definitely true. We must, however, distinguish between "cheerful giving" and "tithing". And the so-called "tithing" practiced today has absolutely no similarity to the OT tithe law other than that a tenth is involved.
Yes. Let's encourage cheerful giving, NOT "tithing"!
Yes. Giving is not wrong. God loveth a cheerful giver. Persuading people into believing that they are obligated to give 10% of their paychecks to some church board is wrong.
I have no problem with one choosing to give 10% of one's earnings. I do have a problem with the idea the the phantom "tithe" is any obligation whatsoever.
It has always been puzzling to me how many like to dispensationally cherry pick and mutilate certain OT laws and be the authority of which ones apply to the New Testament church and which ones don't.
This 10% of a paycheck idea is not the tithe of the Bible. Also, how can we be sure that every penny of our "tithe" is "going to the Lord." Especially in denominational Conventions where staffers make six-digit figures, can we be sure that our "tithe" is really going to the Lord. I think you will find that in the Old Testament tithe (Deuteronomy 14), it was a celebration of sharing, not of forking money to an invisible convention in which you may or may not see the results. In the New Testament, there is giving--liberal and cheerful giving. Believers sold possessions and gave to each other so that none had need. (Acts 2:42-47)
The next chapter (15) in Deuteronomy talks about the command to release debts every seven years. Why don't we practice that?
It all boils down to this: 2 Corinthians 9:7
Can you please explain to me how I can give not of necessity if 10% is a necessity.