Universal Atonement With Limited Atonement

[Silverhair]

lol You think you trust the word of God, but you have been deceived. Hey but there is always the possibility God will grant you repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth as its in the real Christ Jesus.

He already did that over 60 years ago.

BF I am not the one that has to twist the word of God to make it fit my false religion such as you do.

You have chosen to follow a man-made philosophy and it has lead you into gross error. Many on here have been patient with you when trying to point you back to the truth of God's word but you continue to resist that truth.

If you will not believe the word of God what will you believe?

 

[Van]

Forgive me for thinking you were following the conversation and talking about the rites described in Leviticus.

I should have known better.

Following the conversation has nothing to do with your obvious ignorance of scripture and the topic of reconciliation. Rather than admit you did not understand the Old Testament model, you hurl innuendos my way. Classy

 

[Aaron]

Following the conversation has nothing to do with your obvious ignorance of scripture and the topic of reconciliation. Rather than admit you did not understand the Old Testament model, you hurl innuendos my way. Classy

I do understand that you're quite illiterate in the law.

There was no sprinkling of the congregation on the day of atonement,

To anyone reading at a third grade level, I'm clearly of speaking of the Day of Atonement. That's in Leviticus. It's clear you don't know that, because you confused Paul's summary of an unrelated, and unrepeated rite with the law of that offering.

The lesson in that event is not the subject of the thread. It's not in view in the sin offerings on the day of atonement.

Again, i apologize for expecting more of you than I should.

 

[Brightfame52]

He already did that over 60 years ago.

BF I am not the one that has to twist the word of God to make it fit my false religion such as you do.

You have chosen to follow a man-made philosophy and it has lead you into gross error. Many on here have been patient with you when trying to point you back to the truth of God's word but you continue to resist that truth.

If you will not believe the word of God what will you believe?

You think you trust the word of God, but you have been deceived. Hey but there is always the possibility God will grant you repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth as its in the real Christ Jesus.

 

[Silverhair]

You think you trust the word of God, but you have been deceived. Hey but there is always the possibility God will grant you repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth as its in the real Christ Jesus.

For someone that claims to preach the word of God you do seem to know very little of the word of God but you do know quite a bit of what those C/R teachers have told you.

 

[Brightfame52]

The Atonement of Christ by His own words is specifically for His Sheep, which all are not. Jn 10:11,15,26

 

[Silverhair]

The Atonement of Christ by His own words is specifically for His Sheep, which all are not. Jn 10:11,15,26

Actually you have just made the error of reading your religion into the text again.

Joh 3:14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
Joh 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Joh 10:9 "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

So we see that the sheep that follow Christ Jesus are those that have heard and believed.

Those that are not His sheep are those that have rejected Jesus.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
Joh 10:26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

If you had read all of John 10 you would see your error. But as is usual with you BF you pick out verses that you think support you and ignore all the rest.

You continue to treat the word of God as if it were a salad bar where you pick out what you like and leave the rest.

 

[Brightfame52]

Limited Atonement is set forth here from scripture Zech 13

In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Thats not everyone without exception, and this is speaking about Christ and His work for sinners. I Salvation is for the house of David. So Romans opens up Rom 1:1-3

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

2 Tim 2:8

Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

 

[Brightfame52]

See also in this connection Lk 1:69

And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

Raising up the Tabernacle of David is in connection with this Salvation and its talking about Gentiles Acts 15

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Not all Gentiles but only a remnant are considered for the building of the Tabernacle of David.

 

[Brightfame52]

Actually you have just made the error of reading your religion into the text again.

Joh 3:14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
Joh 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Joh 10:9 "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

So we see that the sheep that follow Christ Jesus are those that have heard and believed.

Those that are not His sheep are those that have rejected Jesus.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
Joh 10:26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

If you had read all of John 10 you would see your error. But as is usual with you BF you pick out verses that you think support you and ignore all the rest.

You continue to treat the word of God as if it were a salad bar where you pick out what you like and leave the rest.

The Atonement of Christ by His own words is specifically for His Sheep, which all are not. Jn 10:11,15,26

 

[Silverhair]

Limited Atonement is set forth here from scripture Zech 13

In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Thats not everyone without exception, and this is speaking about Christ and His work for sinners. I Salvation is for the house of David. So Romans opens up Rom 1:1-3

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

2 Tim 2:8

Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

But what is the work of Jesus for sinners BF.

Luk 24:46 And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
Luk 24:47 and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.

Joh 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

The atonement is unlimited in that all can be saved
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

but is limited in that only those that freely trust in Him will be saved.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[Silverhair]

The Atonement of Christ by His own words is specifically for His Sheep, which all are not. Jn 10:11,15,26

Read all of John 10 not just the verses that you think support your view BF.

 

[Brightfame52]

But what is the work of Jesus for sinners BF.

Luk 24:46 And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
Luk 24:47 and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.

Joh 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

The atonement is unlimited in that all can be saved
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

but is limited in that only those that freely trust in Him will be saved.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Only for the house of David, or an elect people.

 

[Brightfame52]

Read all of John 10 not just the verses that you think support your view BF.

Ive read all of Jn 10, 100s of times, and Jesus in John 10 specifically stated for whom He died, His Sheep.

 

[Van]

I do understand that you're quite illiterate in the law.

To anyone reading at a third grade level, I'm clearly of speaking of the Day of Atonement. That's in Leviticus. It's clear you don't know that, because you confused Paul's summary of an unrelated, and unrepeated rite with the law of that offering.

The lesson in that event is not the subject of the thread. It's not in view in the sin offerings on the day of atonement.

Again, i apologize for expecting more of you than I should.

1) The change of subject, addressing me and not the topic.
2) We are NOT speaking exclusively of a "Day" but of how the Old Covenant models, illustrates and foreshadows the New Covenant.
3) We do not reshape the New Covenant with the Old, the New Covenant reshapes the Old.

The issue is clear, first an atoning sacrifice must be offered for all, and then, in order to "receive" the reconciliation provided by the sacrifice, the individual sinner must be "sprinkled" or more accurately "washed in the sacrificial blood." For Christianity, when God chooses an individual whose faith He has credited as righteousness and transfers that person spiritually into Christ, they undergo the washing of regeneration, thus "receiving" the reconciliation provided by the sacrifice.

I know a group wants to conflate the two actions into one, but if you study why we are ambassadors with the ministry of reconciliation, and the concept of the lost, years after Christ died, then "receiving" the reconciliation, you too will come to the conclusion that "Biblical Atonement" is a two step process.

 

[Brightfame52]

1) The change of subject, addressing me and not the topic.
2) We are NOT speaking exclusively of a "Day" but of how the Old Covenant models, illustrates and foreshadows the New Covenant.
3) We do not reshape the New Covenant with the Old, the New Covenant reshapes the Old.

The issue is clear, first an atoning sacrifice must be offered for all, and then, in order to "receive" the reconciliation provided by the sacrifice, the individual sinner must be "sprinkled" or more accurately "washed in the sacrificial blood." For Christianity, when God chooses an individual whose faith He has credited as righteousness and transfers that person spiritually into Christ, they undergo the washing of regeneration, thus "receiving" the reconciliation provided by the sacrifice.

I know a group wants to conflate the two actions into one, but if you study why we are ambassadors with the ministry of reconciliation, and the concept of the lost, years after Christ died, then "receiving" the reconciliation, you too will come to the conclusion that "Biblical Atonement" is a two step process.

All this man made religion here.

 

[Silverhair]

Only for the house of David, or an elect people.

Believe what you will BF. I have pointed you to the truth of God's word and you just dance around it.

I only respond to your errant views so that those who read this threads will see the errors in your religion.

 

[Silverhair]

Ive read all of Jn 10, 100s of times, and Jesus in John 10 specifically stated for whom He died, His Sheep.

And you still miss the truths contained there in.

 

[Brightfame52]

Believe what you will BF. I have pointed you to the truth of God's word and you just dance around it.

I only respond to your errant views so that those who read this threads will see the errors in your religion.

Its crystal clear. What about this ? Who is Christ a Horn of Salvation for Lk 1:69

And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

 

[Brightfame52]

And you still miss the truths contained there in.

Thats actually how I found the Truth. Now who did Jesus Himself specify for whom He is laying down His Life for ? Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.