Which in no where found in the scriptures!
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Unlimited Atonement
- Thread starter Pastor_Bob
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In regard to being a slave to sin, i would say that's not true. Ever Non-cal that i know Believes that we are Slave to Sin prior to the new birth and subsequent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
You're reading into the white spaces between the black letters
If we’re slaves to sin, it’s our master(Satan). Slaves are not free. Only the Christ can set us free, and that includes the will.
Why would Saul who HATED Jesus and his followers, all of a sudden have a change of heart and mind by himself? Why did John Newton?
Right, i do not know any non-cals that would disagree with that.
Rockson
Active Member
LOL! So this is the way you influence a discussion by having a picture of 9 thumbs up supporting Cassidy's opinion? Very well. But look below! There's 19, twice as many giving it a thumbs down. Guess our side of the argument wins the case!
That is what "free will" means. The lost man is free to choose Christ apart from regeneration.
They do, as yo see us able to freewill ourselves to salvation!
Not found in the Bible.
Ahhhh, probably because the disconnect is in the definitions. To ME, freewill is not the same thing as saying we have a will that is free. Maybe that's an error on my part?
Then why call it free will?
Please expound what you meant here. Thanks bunches.
How can a person save themselves? Who claims that?
Those who say they believed prior to being saved. Believing and conversion happen simultaneously, with God authoring both their belief(faith) and salvation,
The ones who claim that we first believe, then get regerated by God!
HopefulNChrist
Member
But doesn't this scripture below reproves such a notion that sinners have free will to choose Christ?
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Does the scripture below explains how our believing in Him is a work of God Himself because He knows whom is seeking Him from those that are not, so that He knows whom to reveal His Son to so they can believe in Him to be saved?
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
I see this instructions to His disciples as if He was talking about when to preach Him from when they shouldn't.
Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
I apply those verses above in that manner only because of these verses below which shows God in action for whom He wants the gospel preached to, from those He would not preach the gospel to at that time because He knew whom was seeking Him from those that were not seeking Him.
Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
I am sure we have free will for why we shall be held accountable to what we sow towards; the works of the flesh and thus reaping corruption or the fruits of the Spirit, and life everlasting along with joy in having fellowship with the Father & the Son.
I believe it is safe to say that I thank God the Father in Jesus's name for giving me to His Son to save and to keep as His disciple by abiding in Him and His words and thanks to Him, I do so hope in Him as my Friend to keep me as His friend.
John 6:.37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Seeing the work of the Father in giving us to Jesus Christ by revealing His Son to us so we can believe in Him to be saved, it proves we need God to save us from our sins, by helping us to overcome the sin of unbelief so we can believe in Him to be saved.
What I learn about this from His words is that no one is in hell that would have believed the gospel even though they never heard it, because the Father knew they had preferred their evil deeds over coming to the Light to be reproved of them.
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Just how many of these threads have I started, Tom? I have been here 16 years and have just over 3.7K posts. I am hardly a troll. And, there has never been a question in those 16 years that you have asked that I could not answer. There are many that have been strawmen that I have chosen to ignore. You have a knack for twisting words and making statements into something that was neither said nor implied. I shake my head every time, because I feel that you're smarter than that. I have never been one who had to resort to bullying tactics.
You're wrong. I don't have to have it both ways. I'm not the one who designed the plan of salvation.
John 1:29 says the atonement is for all.
Romans 5:6 says the atonement is for all.
Romans 5:8 says the atonement is for all.
I Timothy 4:10 says the atonement is for all.
Titus 2:11 says the atonement is for all.
Hebrews 2:9 says the atonement is for all.
I John 2:2 says the atonement is for all.
John Calvin says the atonement is for all:
“And when he says the sin of the world he extends this kindness indiscriminately to the whole human race, so that the Jews might not think the Redeemer had been sent to them alone. From this we infer that the whole world is bound in the same condemnation, and that since all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they have need of reconciliation. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking about the sin of the world in general wanted to make us feel our own misery and exhort us to seek the remedy. Now it is for us to embrace the blessing offered to all, that each may make up his mind that there is nothing to hinder him from finding reconciliation in Christ if only, led by faith, he comes to him.” (John: The Crossway Classic Commentaries, p.37)*
“It is incontestable that Christ came for the expiation of the sins of the whole world.” (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.148)*
According to you, this a "blatant personal attack." Are you going to report this post or do you want me to?
The truth is, you know good and well that I am not denying the blood atonement. I am making the distinction between the literal, physical blood of Christ that was offered for our atonement to the Father and is now on the Mercy Seat, with the act of the Atonement. That distinction is necessary only because you play word games when the rest of us are trying to have a fruitful discussion.
The blood was presented to the Father, the atonement was made for sinners (Romans 5:8). The atonement was indeed for us. If it were not, how could Paul say that "we have received the atonement"? (Romans 5:11).
I agree 100%. To say that the blood atonement is limited to a particular group of human beings is equally terrible heresy, in my humble opinion.
You're arguing with yourself here, Tom. You're the one who pointed out (however needlessly) that Romans 10:13 is talking about salvation. I was just agreeing with you.
* These quotes are from secondary sources.
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