Bro. Curtis said:
Murders happen in Massachusetts, where it is next to impossible to get a legal hangun. Respectfully, I believe the "gun free zone" was a contributing factor in this.
I don't have an answer for the law, 'cept maybe if New York didn't make it so hard to own a gun, people wouldn't go to Virginia. Maybe U.S. citizenship could be a requirement, but I don't have a problem with inter-state gun sales.
Hope of Glory said:
You need to check where you're hearing stuff, then.
To purchase a handgun, you have to pass a background check. This guy was apparently squeaky clean.
The only people who will be prevented from buying guns with more gun control laws will be law-abiding citizens. Do you realize just how few guns used in crimes are legally purchased? This one was an exception.
There are many times more people who are beaten to death than shot. Does this mean that we need to pass laws making it more difficult to obtain blunt objects?
More people die in car accidents than are murdered with guns.
Many times more people are stabbed than shot.
And more people die from deer attacks than snake bites.
Perception rules this day and age of emotionalism; logic has little value any more. People percieve that flying is dangerous and driving is safe, yet air travel, mile for mile, is many, many, many times safer.
Why?
Because when a plane crashes, it's spectacular! Hundreds dead all at once. Film footage galore.
The same with guns.
You don't hear about Joe Thug who was beaten to death by Billy Bob and Jim Bog Gangsta.
But, this murderous rampage in VA was spectacular!
So, it's perceived as being worse, even though it's not.
Oh, and for what it's worth, I have personally stopped three crimes using a handgun and one with a rifle, and only once had to even fire a warning shot. Four people were arrested.
All with guns that certain knee-jerk reactionaries want to ban because they look scary.
As an aside, while driving across Canada, I was not permitted to take my Ruger 10/22, because it's an "assault weapon", even though the bullets could bounce off a windshield. However, I could take my 91/30 and my 8mm Mauser, even though I could shoot someone through the entire car. They don't look scary.
"Squeaky clean"? They must not have really checked much of anything, or ignored alot of stuff. They're saying now that this kid had been acting strange two years ago, was suicidal, stalking people, alarming professors with his paper assignment writings, and was even sent to a mental facility. That is what "control" such as background checks are designed to look for.
Why does a person like that need to be allowed to buy a gun without any sort of regulation?. Again, 'cause I got mine, and I'll finish him off and ride off into the sunset!
Talk about emotions and gut feelings over logic! All the responses still assume
1)that all gun control legislation aims to take all guns away from law abiding citizens. You're hearing something that largely isn't being said. A few radicals or activist types arguing on the second amemdment, maybe. But the right for a law abiding citizen to own a gun is not what is really being challenged by
authorities. (Who are the ones who really count when it comes to legislation).
2)And you're still trying to argue for this grand showdown where eveyrhting turns out right, (like in the movies). It may have worked
sometimes, ut what people seem to be arguing is don't have any regulation; let the criminals buy guns, and we'll have ours and we ill always stop crime. But in many cases, it simply does
not work out like this. But this is all an individualistic "It works for me; later for what happens to others" mindset anyway.
Even COPS who are the Law, and armed, and trained to use guns are are getting killed with these guns (And this is what sparked the last round of this debate when NYC cops were killed, and NYC's mayor and others were complaining about this a few months ago; while the VA gun dealers thought it was some sort of joke or something).
3) Then, it's "well other people get killed in other ways, so why make an issue of guns? That's like cut off your nose to spite your face. So because there are other deadly situations in the world, why not try to improve what we cam. Someone can kill you with a knife, so you might as well let them have guns too. That certainly isn't thinking logically!
Andre said:
I have not read the second study but I wish to submit the following for the reader's consideration.
The fact that areas with strict gun control laws have higher rates of gun violence is not an item of evidence to the effect that gun control does not work, unless and until other variables are properly controlled for.
In the cases of cities like Washington, Detroit, and Baltimore, it is entirely possible that other factors, poverty, overcrowding, gang presence, etc. are responsible for the higher rates of violent crime. It is entirely plausible that strict gun laws have made the rate lower than it would otherwise be.
Other variables need to be controlled for. As I have said, I did not read the second study, so I stand to be corrected if other factors have been somehow ruled out (although I would imagine that would be difficult to do).
:thumbs:
So to add, these places generally have more people (because of the big cities) and hence those big city problems, which right there will create more violence. The criminals simpoly come to states like VA, and then take the guns back to the city. And all people, so afraid of the big bad govt. coming and taking away their gun can think is "well, those states should have lax gun laws, so when those criminals buy the guns in their own state, if all the other citizens also have guns, then the crime rate would drop". No, because in all of those gun battles on the streets, both sides are armed, and that is usually when innocent bystanders (often inside of their houses and not even knowing what's going on), get hit by stray bullets.
Again, people try to throw "you're using emotion and not logic" at the other side, but that is just what this side is doing, when all you can think about in this issue is some idealized situation where someone comes after YOU or someone close to you, and you successfully stop the crime!
So while the dreaded "liberals" may have their "idealism" that doesn't really work in the real world, so do we, as we go to the opposite extreme, and attempt to turn the entire citizenry into heavily armed vigilantes and think this will create safety.