Vatican Ain't Ready For Reform

[OfLivingWaters]

1Ti 6:1 KJV - Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and [his] doctrine be not blasphemed.
1Ti 6:2 KJV - And they that have believing masters, let them not despise [them], because they are brethren; but rather do [them] service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
1Ti 6:3 KJV - If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 KJV - He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 KJV - Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

I choose to withdraw from interacting with OfLivingWaters.

You post thing about slaves in debt to masters. So it would seem you admit you are a slave to your doctrinal fathers. I am free, I am no slave to any man. You remain enslaved. I am a slave to Christ not men and to the foundational fathers , my loyalty. And actually your cut and divide use of the Word YET AGAIN is falsely applied,

 

[OfLivingWaters]

PROVEN WITH SCRIPTURE BY ME IN SUPPORT OF CATHOLICS:
1. The Rosary is a profession of faith. It holds within it the confessing of 1John 4. That Christ has come in the flesh.
2. The Marian apparitions which profess this (That Christ has come in the flesh)are of God . No evil spirit of man or apparition will say the Rosary because the confessing of (Christ has come in the flesh) is in it. Therefore , the ROSARY stands !Affirmed by scripture alone. Mother Mary nor the Rosary should be thrown mud at.
3. Purgatory is upheld by scripture alone.
4. Faith and Works and not faith alone has been proven by scripture alone.
5. Proven with scripture alone- Mary is the Ark of the Covenant.
6. Proven with scripture alone- Mary is Theotokos.
7. Christ is present in His supper / Eucharist : John 6:53 -54. 53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.…
He would not say this if the transforming power of the Holy Spirit does not come upon this sacrament, work in faith. Proven with scripture alone!
8. Immaculate conception I have proven in other post but will here. SOLA SCRIPTURA will prevail.
Are there some things within Catholic doctrines which need to be tweaked, of course. Through the dark hour the Catholic Christians believers are in, they will come out perfected. All false doctrines of men will be shed. But for sure the Dogma of the faith they hold and the Protestants do not. My most fulfilling communing and fellowship is among the Traditional Catholics and Orthodox.
What precious gem have I gained from among Protestants , Scripture Alone.
More to come.....

 

[Yeshua1]

What church is that? I am aware of the meaning of this prophecy.
Isaiah 5:1-2
Future Blessings for Zion
1“Shout for joy, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth into song and cry aloud, you who have never travailed; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband,” says the LORD. 2“Enlarge the site of your tent, stretch out the curtains of your dwellings, do not hold back. Lengthen your ropes and drive your stakes deep.…

Correlates with Rev 14. I am simply Christian , nondenominational I said. I recognize the season we are in and recognize precious gems in denominations, is all and I will defend those precious gems= doctrines.

Baptist church

 

[Yeshua1]

PROVEN WITH SCRIPTURE BY ME IN SUPPORT OF CATHOLICS:
1. The Rosary is a profession of faith. It holds within it the confessing of 1John 4. That Christ has come in the flesh.
2. The Marian apparitions which profess this (That Christ has come in the flesh)are of God . No evil spirit of man or apparition will say the Rosary because the confessing of (Christ has come in the flesh) is in it. Therefore , the ROSARY stands !Affirmed by scripture alone. Mother Mary nor the Rosary should be thrown mud at.
3. Purgatory is upheld by scripture alone.
4. Faith and Works and not faith alone has been proven by scripture alone.
5. Proven with scripture alone- Mary is the Ark of the Covenant.
6. Proven with scripture alone- Mary is Theotokos.
7. Christ is present in His supper / Eucharist : John 6:53 -54. 53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.…
He would not say this if the transforming power of the Holy Spirit does not come upon this sacrament, work in faith. Proven with scripture alone!
8. Immaculate conception I have proven in other post but will here. SOLA SCRIPTURA will prevail.
Are there some things within Catholic doctrines which need to be tweaked, of course. Through the dark hour the Catholic Christians believers are in, they will come out perfected. All false doctrines of men will be shed. But for sure the Dogma of the faith they hold and the Protestants do not. My most fulfilling communing and fellowship is among the Traditional Catholics and Orthodox.
What precious gem have I gained from among Protestants , Scripture Alone.
More to come.....

You might be able to prove them with the non inspired additional catholic scriptures, but not from the Canonized ones!

 

[Adonia]

Actually, we strip away all of the manmade traditions and dogmas of the so called Theology of Rome to get back to just what was taught in the word of God itself!

And we need to believe your interpretation of the Word of God I guess.

 

[Yeshua1]

And we need to believe your interpretation of the Word of God I guess.

Not mine, but that of the Holy Spirit Himself!

 

[Walter]

Not mine, but that of the Holy Spirit Himself!

Hmmm, . . . So, the Freewill Baptists claim the Holy Spirit has led them to believe that Eternal Security is heresy. And, let's ask various Baptists on this board: Limited Atonement or Unlimited Atonement? Btw, Yeshia1, which is it? Surely the Holy Spirit has y'all on one page, right?

 

[FaithAndWorks]

Maybe all Catholics are not ready for change but many are. It is hypocritical to point fingers when Baptist do not even hold the Dogma of faith. And Reform certainly will NOT come by you! You deny water baptism is necessary, Christ's real presents even when He clearly says His body and blood gives life. You attack His mother through false interpretation of scripture. You think once one dies in flesh ones spirit has no reign in Christ. You are a cult , too much meat removed from the Word to even be considered legit.

Catholics will be edified and many already know Francis is a bad player. However , you people have absolutely NO CLUE about the REAL IMPORTANT THINGS of the faith.

Catholics recognize what is going on and know scripture says :
Paul's Farewell to the Ephesians Acts 20:2830
…28Keep watch over yourselves and the entire flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood. 29I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your( own number), men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them.…

The faithful have already been warned. The point: The Catholic Church may have many wolves but you are ALL wolves because you hold to false doctrines and do not even possess the Dogma of the Faith.

Catholics know what's going on.
THE CATHOLIC THING: Article-

 

[FaithAndWorks]

The Mueller Manifesto





Robert Royal

Monday, February 11, 2019

Cardinal Gerhard Mueller published a “Manifesto of Faith” (see here) last week. Actually, it was leaked prematurely by a Polish group. The Manifesto was supposed to appear yesterday, the eve of the anniversary of Benedict XVI’s announcement of his resignation, which also happens to be the eve of the anniversary of Mueller’s ordination, both anniversaries falling on February 11, i.e., today.

Like everything Mueller has published since Pope Francis removed him from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, it’s rich in a multitude of ways, though it is only four pages long. Many people have been asking him to clarify Catholic teachings that have seemed to be in doubt in recent years. So, in an indirect way, we finally have responses to the Dubia presented to the pope, which Francis chose not to answer.

The Manifesto addresses the pope’s seeming indifferentism in the recent declaration he signed with Muslims claiming that God wills a plurality of religions. As Mueller points out, the Trinitarian revelation of the Gospels “marks a fundamental difference in the belief in God and the image of man from that of other religions,” even the other monotheistic faiths. And this is crucially important for our understanding not only of God, but ourselves.

*
The Church is an integral part of God’s special plan because it “conveys with the authority of Christ the divine revelation, which extends to all the elements of doctrine, ‘including the moral teaching, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, and observed.’” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2035)

In what is clearly a commentary on questions about marriage raised by Amoris laetitia and about intercommunion with non-Catholics, he lists groups that can’t receive Communion:

From the internal logic of the sacrament, it is understood that divorced and civilly remarried persons, whose sacramental marriage exists before God, as well as those Christians who are not in full communion with the Catholic Faith and the Church, just as all those who are not disposed to receive the Holy Eucharist fruitfully (CCC 1457), because it does not bring them to salvation. To point this out corresponds to the spiritual works of mercy.

And he’s quite blunt about the cumulative effect of failure to restate fundamental truths: “Many wonder today what purpose the Church still has in its existence, when even bishops prefer to be politicians rather than to proclaim the Gospel as teachers of the Faith.”

Such clarifications are all to the good these days. But I was struck by one line near the beginning: “Today, many Christians are no longer even aware of the basic teachings of the Faith,” [emphasis added] which seems obvious enough, though numerous Catholic leaders, even at the highest levels, have long seemed unconcerned about that lack of awareness.

Imagine if a nation – actually if you’re American you won’t have to try very hard – woke up to find one day that it was not teaching its children, which is to say its future generations, the basic truths about its past; training them in how to read, write, and think clearly and consistently; to do basic math, so that asking 2 + 2 = ? leads us into philosophical/theological tangles.

 

[FaithAndWorks]

How would responsible parents, teachers, leaders react?

**
Benedict XVI remarked in a 2010 interview that it’s puzzling how Catholics who have attended Catholic schools for a dozen years or more often seem to emerge with a sympathy for Islam or a basic acquaintance with Buddhism, but without much loyalty toward or knowledge of their own faith.

This is more than an educational problem. It goes to one of the central questions about the very nature of Christianity. As Mueller continues in that sentence I quoted above about the loss of basic truths, “so there is a growing danger of missing the path to eternal life.”

And so we confront something that has fallen by the wayside in much modern Christian thought. Is Christ what He Himself told us He is: the Way, the Truth, and the Life? And not in some vague sentimentalized way in which we all are – eventually and indulgently – saved, whatever we think and do. But in the, yes, merciful, but also demanding – sometimes even threatening – way of the real Jesus in the Gospels, who speaks of Gehenna “where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.” (Mk. 9:48)

I raise this point in full knowledge that the infernal propaganda machine long ago succeeded in making anyone who brings up Hell appear like the longhair kook on the street corner with the sign: The End Is Near. For many people, even Christians, God is just too Nice a Guy for such things.

But the words are Jesus’. As Mueller remarks, “We are to resist the relapse into ancient heresies with clear resolve, which saw in Jesus Christ only a good person, brother and friend, prophet and moralist.”

There are many horrific evils in the world, even in the modern, progressive, enlightened world. Starting with the thousands of innocents slaughtered every day before they are even born.

Even the Aztecs who cut out still-beating hearts in human sacrifice or the ancient worshippers of Moloch didn’t run up anywhere near such body counts. (Pace the pope and his Muslim counterpart, all religions are not equal and do not necessarily seek the same things.)

The good shepherd knows his sheep, and his sheep know him. But they know each other not just by smell, or by being of the same flock – a flock may be good or bad. They know each other, if they are human beings and not merely animals, with their hearts, minds, and souls. And that inevitably means they are one because they share and live by certain truths.

Kudos to Mueller for his sturdy clarity: “It is the shepherds’ very own task to guide those entrusted to them on the path of salvation. This can only succeed if they know this way and follow it themselves.”



*Image: First Communion by Pablo Picasso, 1896 [Picasso Museum, Barcelona]. This is one of Picasso’s earliest paintings, done when he was just 15.

**Image: The Last Communion of St. Jerome by Botticelli, c. 1490 [The Met, New York]. The beautiful frame is from the workshop of Giuliano da Maiano; the lunette painting is by Bartolomeo di Giovanni, Botticelli’s friend. The detail below shows the great saint receiving worthily.

 

[FaithAndWorks]

Catholics may have some faults but they Do possess the Dogma of the faith. Christ will admonish and then give increase of knowledge. But He can not give increase to those who do not even hold the dogma of the faith. Your Baptist doctrine is lack luster!
You can not polish hay, wood or straw , but certainly can polish GOLD and silver , the dross can be removed from those- but not from a strawman's doctrine, it simply burns to blackened coal!

 

[church mouse guy]

Catholics may have some faults but they Do possess the Dogma of the faith. Christ will admonish and then give increase of knowledge. But He can not give increase to those who do not even hold the dogma of the faith. Your Baptist doctrine is lack luster!
You can not polish hay, wood or straw , but certainly can polish GOLD and silver , the dross can be removed from those- but not from a strawman's doctrine, it simply burns to blackened coal!

The RCC has long preached that there is no salvation outside the walls of the Roman Catholic Church. But inside the RCC, there has been centuries of homosexuality and corruption and now we see Archbishop Vigano, who is in hiding for fear of his life at the hands of the Vatican, say that Pope Francis himself engaged in the coverup of sexual abuse and rape when he reinstated McCarrick whom he knew was guilty of homosexual rape repeatedly.

 

[FaithAndWorks]

Paul's Farewell to the Ephesians Acts20:28-30
…28Keep watch over yourselves and the entire flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood. 29I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them.…

Ezekiel 22:27
Her officials within her are like wolves tearing their prey, shedding blood, and destroying lives for dishonest gain.

Ezekiel 34:8
As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, because My flock lacks a shepherd and has become prey and food for every wild beast, and because My shepherds did not search for My flock but fed themselves instead,

As you point out (church mouse ) there are two sects, one that destroys and one that preserves. Those who preserve will have to flee and or hide. There are many faults in the RCC but there are true believers,they will have to fight to preserve the truth . It is not about the many but the few.

 

[Yeshua1]

Hmmm, . . . So, the Freewill Baptists claim the Holy Spirit has led them to believe that Eternal Security is heresy. And, let's ask various Baptists on this board: Limited Atonement or Unlimited Atonement? Btw, Yeshia1, which is it? Surely the Holy Spirit has y'all on one page, right?

In regards to what the Gospel is....

 

[Yeshua1]

Catholics may have some faults but they Do possess the Dogma of the faith. Christ will admonish and then give increase of knowledge. But He can not give increase to those who do not even hold the dogma of the faith. Your Baptist doctrine is lack luster!
You can not polish hay, wood or straw , but certainly can polish GOLD and silver , the dross can be removed from those- but not from a strawman's doctrine, it simply burns to blackened coal!

There is no Catholic nor Baptist Faith, just Christian Faith, but Rome does not teach that!

 

[Walter]

Baptist church

Not a bit of historical evidence to that fact. Coptic Christians can trace their origins to the first century. Not one Baptist writing to suggest that. Oh . . .I know, I kmow! The New Testament churches MUST have been actually Baptist,right? Don't you wish history was not so silent to that claim?

 

[Walter]

There is no Catholic nor Baptist Faith, just Christian Faith, but Rome does not teach that!

Gee, even though.The Catholic Church says you are indeed a.Christian (and.as.such, of the Christian faith) you still post this garbage! And, you on the other hand say I am 'lost in my sins'!

 

[David Kent]

Benedict XVI remarked in a 2010 interview that it’s puzzling how Catholics who have attended Catholic schools for a dozen years or more often seem to emerge with a sympathy for Islam or a basic acquaintance with Buddhism, but without much loyalty toward or knowledge of their own faith.

That is rich seeing as the pope recently met with Muslim leaders to discuss with them joining to create a one world religion, one day before he announced widespread abuse of nuns by priests.

When ther have been accounts of this for centuries. After all what is the point of nuns if not to keep the priests happy?

 

[David Kent]

Not a bit of historical evidence to that fact. Coptic Christians can trace their origins to the first century. Not one Baptist writing to suggest that. Oh . . .I know, I kmow! The New Testament churches MUST have been actually Baptist,right? Don't you wish history was not so silent to that claim?

It is not a matter of tracing your origins back to the first century. There were heretics then. It is a matter of whether you abide to NT teschings or not.

The Waldensians traced their separation from Rome from the time of Sylvester, who was bishop of Rome at the time of Costantine as Rome had departed from Gospel teachings. They seem to be the true line back to the first century.

 

[Adonia]

After all what is the point of nuns if not to keep the priests happy?

You should be ashamed of yourself with that comment, that is quite unbecoming from a person who claims to be a Christian. Women who become nuns and sisters consecrate their entire lives to God, in the form of Jesus Christ when they enter their particular religious community. If they are not ministering to the sick, they are taking care of the poorest of the poor. If they are not teaching young people in schools, they are living a life of constant prayer for others. I have a friend who is a religious sister and her holiness as she goes through this life puts my feeble attempts to live a holy and pleasing life for God to shame.