Vatican Reforms

[Cathode]

Your idea of regeneration differs from mine in that the HS takes an active roll in remaking the creature, convicting and forgiving the sins …. That becomes a long lasting (some would say permanent transformation). You see it in the changes, it’s a born new experience.

I could quote thousands of historical writings demonstrating my understanding of Baptism is universal for the first 1500 years. Infant baptism and regeneration.

But I think the problem always seems to stem from a Protestant idea that the entire Church was universally deceived at some time. All the times mentioned, vary from Protestant to Protestant.

I looked everywhere for it. I wasted years looking for a break in Orthodoxy from the early Churches position on Baptism and infant baptism and the Eucharist.

All I found was universal doctrines.

Baptism = Regeneration, Universal.

Infant Baptism = Consistently practiced for the first 1500 years universally.

The Eucharist= The Body and Blood of Christ, Universally.

Protestantism is not a return to earlier Church beliefs, it is a break from Early Church beliefs, and it creates a historical mythology to justify its unbeliefs.

 

[Cathode]

As my beautiful German wife has noted, “cake goes better when paired with coffee in the morning.” I concur!

Well, here we say Cup of tea and a slice of cake.

Quality Black Ceylon tea, dash of milk, no sugar, and slice of lemon cake.

Generally had at morning break, we call Smoko, traditionally being a break when workers could stop to smoke as well.

 

[Cathode]

But Catholics do have much enrichment from extra biblical activities that most Protestant denominations will never understand…take Novinas for instance. Then there is Advent & Lenten services. My grandparents both were a part of prayer chains and rosary prayers. That all taps into the human & humble side of Christian devotions. I still read from “My Imitation of Christ“ ßook from Thomas a Kempis I purchased in 12/2004 as a devotional and instructional guide for emulating Christ. I read it each day on my long rides back & forth into NY on a commuter train that was read in addition to my Bible to solidify my daily study’s.

The Nine days between The Ascension and Pentecost is the general reason for the Novena practice, however there is Jewish roots to this as well.

And also with Advent and Lenten service, we also see this preparatory prayer lead up in expectation to the feast days.

It is part of what I call ‘Long Contemplation’ before a significant feast day. You don’t just savour the day itself, but savour the day in expectation. You are extracting the most appreciation by contemplative rumination days leading up.

There is also a joyful expectation of blessing as with the Apostles when the Lord promised them a Helper.

Long Contemplation is God’s pace, we back off the modern accelerator of rattled manic just in time prayer, which I scarcely call prayer all. The pause in the prayer as with the psalms and ecclesiastical prayers we have punctuated silences, there is good reason for these.

We settle in to the ebb and flow and seasonal breathings of the Church, examine hero’s of the past on their commemoration day’s, observe the fasts and feasts with this joyful expectation and thanksgiving of God’s blessing.

It’s not just the examined life that is lived well, but a contemplative life that elevates to the highest things and appreciates and truly savours them. Taking the time and bother to appreciate and savour.

 

[Cathode]

The real contrasting argument is the RCC’s practice of passive sacrumentalism Vs a Baptist active participation in their own salvation, whereby the adult baptized person actively chooses to participate in their own salvation and entry into the Christian Church. This active participation visibility cements the individual via choice Vs proxy.

Well it’s not an either or but both for Catholics. Some Protestants in the 1500-1600s made an exclusive rule that only believers baptism is valid, which was never Christian Doctrine.

Were Israelite infants denied inclusion into people of God because they couldn’t make mature profession of belief in God.
No, below the age of reason, children are physically and spiritually subject to their parents, their parents decided for them.
There was never a question of denying infants inclusion in the people God in Jewish belief or Christianity. In fact it is antithetical to Christ’s desire to have little one come to Him.

However this not the end of it.

There is a mature profession later on in Jewish and Catholic traditions.

The bar mitzvah, and Confirmation. Both traditions acknowledge the need for a spiritually mature profession as matter of course, but being below the age of reason should not exclude one from the people of God.

In both traditions we see the same principle of parents answering for their children in spiritual matters, and it is completely legitimate.

This is not an easy thing to wriggle out of since we read the scripture saying.

“And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and He continued to be subject to them; and His mother treasured all these things in her heart.”

Even God Himself was subject to His parents.

The only controversy in the Early Church was whether the infant should be baptised on the 8th day in line with the jewish custom of circumcision on the 8th day or immediately.

The answer was immediately because Baptism was universally seen as being born again regeneration and immediate Baptism was by necessity therefore.

“For this reason, moreover, the Church received from the apostles the tradition of baptizing infants too.” Origen, Homily on Romans, V:9 (A.D. 244).

“Baptism is given for the remission of sins; and according to the usage of the Church, Baptism is given even to infants. And indeed if there were nothing in infants which required a remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous.” Origen, Homily on Leviticus, 8:3 (post A.D. 244).

“But in respect of the case of the infants, which you say ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, and that the law of ancient circumcision should be regarded, so that you think one who is just born should not be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day…And therefore, dearest brother, this was our opinion in council, that by us no one ought to be hindered from baptism…we think is to be even more observed in respect of infants and newly-born persons…” Cyprian, To Fidus, Epistle 58(64):2, 6 (A.D. 251).

“Be it so, some will say, in the case of those who ask for Baptism; what have you to say about those who are still children, and conscious neither of the loss nor of the grace? Are we to baptize them too? Certainly, if any danger presses. For it is better that they should be unconsciously sanctified than that they should depart unsealed and uninitiated.” Gregory Nazianzen, Oration on Holy Baptism, 40:28 (A.D. 381).

 

[Cathode]

In Luke 18 Jesus gives us the principle of persistence in prayer and supplication.

The Novena exercises Jesus principal of persistent prayer.

It’s not merely a passing thought that we ask God with, it’s taking real time, bother and effort, this carries more weight, especially if fasting is thrown in with it.

Persistent prayer and fasting has considerable weight behind it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In Luke 18 Jesus gives us the principle of persistence in prayer and supplication.

The Novena exercises Jesus principal of persistent prayer.

It’s not merely a passing thought that we ask God with, it’s taking real time, bother and effort, this carries more weight, especially if fasting is thrown in with it.

Persistent prayer and fasting has considerable weight behind it.

LoL…fasting has weight in it

I’ve been away from Catholism for over 38 years now however I don’t /can’t honestly say I miss it which still shocks most of my RC family (who trace most of their lineage back to the apostles).

I await Leo’s reform set to be released in the fall… hopefully he addresses the Latin mass that I grew up with as well as the restrictions on Priest marrying…not sure priest should even be agent’s for churches, rather men involvement should be Elder’s (my own church is eder led with great success).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I also believe that the RCC needs to pay reparations to the USA for facilitating the illegal trafficking of non citizens into my country so Leo needs to get out his check book.

 

[Cathode]

LoL…fasting has weight in it

Excuse the pun. But I think if people understood the power fasting adds to prayer, most of the world’s problems would be solved.
Most people don’t fast, and it is barely mentioned much, and is treated anachronistically, almost like mentioning virtue.

I’ve been away from Catholism for over 38 years now however I don’t /can’t honestly say I miss it which still shocks most of my RC family (who trace most of their lineage back to the apostles).

The Eucharist is what I would miss most.

I await Leo’s reform set to be released in the fall… hopefully he addresses the Latin mass that I grew up with as well as the restrictions on Priest marrying…not sure priest should even be agent’s for churches, rather men involvement should be Elder’s (my own church is eder led with great success).

I think Paul had it right that it is better not to be married when in the service of the Lord. You have to be sedentary and stable to raise a family properly. You have to house, feed and educate a tribe at great expense.

I can’t imagine Paul dragging a family through hunger, beatings, floggings, shipwrecks and beheading.
‘ We are going to Rome kids, and daddy is getting his head chopped off, going to heaven and leaving you here, excited ‘

No, best to travel light and be ready to die unencumbered and have undivided loyalties and duties, evangelisation is not a career, it’s a vocation. A family would turn a man’s vocation into a career.

 

[Cathode]

I also believe that the RCC needs to pay reparations to the USA for facilitating the illegal trafficking of non citizens into my country so Leo needs to get out his check book.

You have a whole political party that was voted in by half your population that facilitated illegal trafficking of non citizens into your country.
Why not a Democrat tax for starters?

 

[Cathode]

“Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.”

The Apostles gave up everything, the possibility of wives and children, and this is what Catholic priests do.

Jesus promised to make them fishers of men.

And what is rule number one when fishing?

Never take women or children. The whining is insufferable, and can best be done without.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You have a whole political party that was voted in by half your population that facilitated illegal trafficking of non citizens into your country.
Why not a Democrat tax for starters?

Execution of Biden staff for starters as traitors of the country….and also trial and execution of anyone who colluded with them. Let the world know that the citizens of the US do not take invasions lightly. Had we executed any Nazi caught and proven to have been complicit in war crimes, they would have displayed a no simpathy stance that would have carried on for years on the world stage, Forever! Since the RCC conspired and carried out invasion programs with politicians, then they must also pay the price. There should be no tolerance given to them for existing as a Catholic Church…in fact, they should be now taxed and run out of existence in the USA, after proving their true intentions at world domination thru illegials immigration invasions and No Tolerance law(s) should be enacted in the present & future. US Citizens should not put up with a European cultic church whose operating plan hurts their nation. Be gone from our sight…persona non gratia. We can effectively operate without any RC interference.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Nine days between The Ascension and Pentecost is the general reason for the Novena practice, however there is Jewish roots to this as well.

And also with Advent and Lenten service, we also see this preparatory prayer lead up in expectation to the feast days.

It is part of what I call ‘Long Contemplation’ before a significant feast day. You don’t just savour the day itself, but savour the day in expectation. You are extracting the most appreciation by contemplative rumination days leading up.

There is also a joyful expectation of blessing as with the Apostles when the Lord promised them a Helper.

Long Contemplation is God’s pace, we back off the modern accelerator of rattled manic just in time prayer, which I scarcely call prayer all. The pause in the prayer as with the psalms and ecclesiastical prayers we have punctuated silences, there is good reason for these.

We settle in to the ebb and flow and seasonal breathings of the Church, examine hero’s of the past on their commemoration day’s, observe the fasts and feasts with this joyful expectation and thanksgiving of God’s blessing.

It’s not just the examined life that is lived well, but a contemplative life that elevates to the highest things and appreciates and truly savours them. Taking the time and bother to appreciate and savour.

The completive life is something that I feel is missing in Protestant and Baptistic worship. That’s why I like reading ‘a Kempis, saints like Francis, Augustine, Boniventure, etc. because they seek to imitate Christ. Life is somehow sweeter just knowing they dedicated their lives to Christ in that manner. They were the true Priests of the day…they were present in life and in spirit, and full of joy. hopefully this pope can regenerate this in our souls and daily lives.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I personally believe that the RCC, The Eastern Orthodox Church and many Protestant Denoms are on the way out in keeping with Americans attitudes regarding both church & religion….they are being collapsed because of Modernism and peoples unwillingness to be a part of the church process. Covid convinced many that it’s unnecessary to be present at church gatherings, the elderly can visit via the internet, Roman Catholics of my age have been raped by pedofile clerics, churches are aging out w/o replacements, modernism via women and homosexuals are taking administration and priestly rolls, blended churches seem confused about which sub denomination they are going to pander to and it just serves to confuse and alienate others blah blah blah. Then there is shuttle disconnects I’ve seen by the clergy to disregard other members of their own clergy from holding performance positions within their own churches. All and all, people in the pews see stuff that leads to the stance,, this is not for me and my family. So now we are raising up generations who largely disregard any connection to church. How pathetic we have become.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, here we say Cup of tea and a slice of cake.

Quality Black Ceylon tea, dash of milk, no sugar, and slice of lemon cake.

Generally had at morning break, we call Smoko, traditionally being a break when workers could stop to smoke as well.

Americans are a mixed bag of cultures….I referenced my wife’s German heritage and cake & coffee because that’s their morning meal. My father was raised as an Anglo with British & Gallic traditions ie sausage, bacon, eggs and beans, toast as a breakfast. I could mention the Scots family oatmeal breakfast and the Italian biscotti & cappuccino meals as well…but I’m now an insulin injecting diabetic so all carbs, alcohol & sugar laden foods are forbidden. What remains is a cup of black coffee as the morning ritual along with testing my blood for glucose levels. And that 2nd part frankly sucks.

 

[Cathode]

The completive life is something that I feel is missing in Protestant and Baptistic worship. That’s why I like reading ‘a Kempis, saints like Francis, Augustine, Boniventure, etc. because they seek to imitate Christ. Life is somehow sweeter just knowing they dedicated their lives to Christ in that manner. They were the true Priests of the day…they were present in life and in spirit, and full of joy. hopefully this pope can regenerate this in our souls and daily lives.

In monastic contemplative life we see Christian community owning everything in common as mentioned in Scripture of the Early Church.

They weren’t “communist” as people say, they were monastic, deliberately communal so as to free themselves to think of the higher things.

There is detachment from the things of this world, and is the greatest division of labour as to allow much more prayer time and contemplation.

Not even the habit a monk wears belongs to him, it belongs to the community.

Locked away with vows of poverty, chastity, obedience and silence, that not even prisons enforce, you would expect to find the most miserable of creatures. But to the contrary, they are the most joyful and happiest, and most peaceful of people, in fact they emanate something of the eternal, having one foot in the next world.

The inner life of the kingdom within is most important, the work that is done provides enough for the time that is prayer. They even make their work a prayer.

 

[Cathode]

Americans are a mixed bag of cultures….I referenced my wife’s German heritage and cake & coffee because that’s their morning meal. My father was raised as an Anglo with British & Gallic traditions ie sausage, bacon, eggs and beans, toast as a breakfast. I could mention the Scots family oatmeal breakfast and the Italian biscotti & cappuccino meals as well…but I’m now an insulin injecting diabetic so all carbs, alcohol & sugar laden foods are forbidden. What remains is a cup of black coffee as the morning ritual along with testing my blood for glucose levels. And that 2nd part frankly sucks.

I’m from Tipperary heritage, a highway man sentenced to death by the British around the famine, but was commuted to deportation to the Australia. Breakfast for him was bread water and a kick to the guts.
Sweet sugary things were never really a feature, our line was mostly hunters and poachers, so they lived on fresh wild meat and fish.
Mutton, kangaroo tail, geese and duck was the major fare and as the deer populated they poached a great deal of those.
I’ll eat lemon cake occasionally, but I always scrape off the icing or offer it to someone else. Sugar always seemed like low grade poison to me. Don’t get me wrong, the occasional hot black sweet tea is good when the weather is bad, a teaspoon of sugar in the mug is comforting at times.

American sweets and lollies I have tried but are inedible to me. These are far too sweet to stand within 10 feet of, their strength needs to be treated with great respect.
The French will make something really sweet, but they only take a small bite of it.

Boil up is standard food for me. Boiled meat and fish with bones salt and add vegetables. Duck is my favourite fowl and food over all, but goat is my favourite ruminant, goat curry ( rendang )or roast goat.
Reef fish is my favourite type of fish.

Breakfast is steak and eggs and homemade bacon and mushrooms. Black coffee, litre of lemon water.

Fast days wholemeal spelt bread.