Verses that PROVE Definite Atonement

[BobRyan]

Here is a good example of an OP text that one would NOT use for limited atonement --

Jhn 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

if we can spin this to mean that Jesus ONLY died for the Jewish nation - then gentiles have no chance at all.

Surely the :limited: view can not go there even on this board.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[All about Grace]

Or, just go read the verses in the OP and tell me which one(s) prove that Jesus probably did not die for your sins

This is not rocket science ... it is simple ... if the atonement was intended to secure the salvation of the "few" only, then the "many" have no provision. That being the case, the "many" will not be covered by the sacrifice. For that reason, most people will die and go to Hell (including many of the children of the elect). Why is this so difficult to acknowledge? Just be honest.

 

[whatever]

AaG,

Here's something even simpler. How many verses in the OP mention Christ dying for the sins of 'few'? How many verses in the OP mention Christ dying for the sins of 'many'? Just be honest.

 

[2BHizown]

FOR WHO DID CHRIST DIE?
by John Owen

The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for,
either:
All the sins of all men.
All the sins of some men, or
Some of the sins of all men.
In which case it may be said:
That if the last be true, all men have some sins to answer for, and so, none are saved.
That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth.
But if the first be the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins?
You answer, "Because of unbelief."
I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!"

 

[BobRyan]

Christ dies for ALL sins of ALL mankind.

So although some chooses UNBELIEF and does NOT accept the Gospel today -- perhaps tomorrow that same someone DOES accept the Gospel and the sin of UNBLIEF is found to have its "payment" in the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.

That means the the model Christ presents STILL WORKS.

1John 2:2 He is the "Atoning Sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD".

Romans 2:11 God is NOT partial to anyone!

Rev 3 "I Stand at the door and knock - if ANYHONE hears my voice AND OPENS the DOOR I WILL then COME in and fellowship WITH HIM and he WITH Me".

Those who think they have God "trapped" such that these simple models MUST not apply are simply mistaken. The trap the imagine for God - does not exist in real life.

Yet they will sometimes ignore that fact and go on to extremes such as --

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1586/19.html#000275

JohnP said -
The Lord has mercy on who He wants and to Hell with the rest for His glory and our deeper reverance.

How much better to simply accept the Bible teaching on Christ the impartial God and Savior who "is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR SINS and NOT for OUR SINS ONLY but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2 NIV

In Christ,

Bob

 

[2BHizown]

If Christ died for all sins of all men, yet all men are not going to heaven, right? Therefore those that are not will be paying for their sins in Hell which would then effect their sins being paid for twice, by Christ and then by themselves who reject Christ? I dont think so!!

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by 2BHizown:
If Christ died for all sins of all men, yet all men are not going to heaven, right? Therefore those that are not will be paying for their sins in Hell which would then effect their sins being paid for twice, by Christ and then by themselves who reject Christ?

Yep that is what it means to "Be the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR SINs and NOT for OUR SINS ONLY but for the SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2.

It means the wicked die NEEDLESSLY. They have full and complete pardon IN Christ and have no need to die - except they CHOOSE to reject the VERY Salvation God offers.

Hence the statement in 2Cor 5 "WE BEG you on behalf of Christ BE RECONCILED TO GOD"!!

Hence the Statement in Romans about MOVING them to Jealousy if perchance I might save some!

Hence the statement of Christ in Rev 3 "I stand at the door AND KNOCK. IF ANYONE hears AND OPENS THE DOOR then I WILL COME IN"

But then there are those who look at such a loving compassionate grace-giving savior and simply say "I think not!".

And so -- they do not all come in.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Ray Berrian]

2BHizown,

If I promise every single person in my neighborhood that if they will come to my door at a certain time I will give them $500.00, then this is what I have decided to do.

For those who come at that time they will get the $500., but those who sit home and disbelieve me get nothing.

This in no way does damage to me or my prooffered gift if people neglect coming to my house to receive my sincere gift. The only person it hurts are those who didn't believe that I would give them the gift. They injure their own life/soul.

The money was available to all, but not all responded wisely in receiving my promised gift. I think you begin to understand my illustration.

Salvation must be responded to in order to make it effectual. Christians call this faith----in Jesus. Are the sins of all lost persons paid for in terms of His blood atonement? Yes. Only by responding do people receive my gift of money; only be responding do people receive the inheritance of the sons and daughters of light.

Jesus paid for the sins of all sinners [I John 2:2]. You cannot injure or diminish the Being of the Lord by rejecting his gift of everlasting life. On the other hand, a sinner will cause eternal damage to their never dying soul, if they reject Jesus and His atonement.

God will always be God no matter how many agnostics or sinners reject the Lord. But that same Lord God will judge them worthy of Hell, not because the payment was not there for their sins, but because of their rebellious rejection of His Son Jesus our Lord.

 

[Ray Berrian]

All sins were paid for once for all people [I Timothy 2:6; Hebrews 9:26; 2:9 & I John 2:2] When sinners rebel even to the time of their death, they have disrespected Jesus' love, grace, and atonement made in His blood.

Hell is for being punished for sinner's sins not, as you said, sinners paying for their sins a second time,though Jesus paid for them on the Cross. It is because sinners were found to be rebellous to all of His promptings of the Holy Spirit that could have brought them to forgiveness.

The axis has always rotated on whether a person has faith in Jesus or their rejection of the grace offered through His shed blood.

In Revelation 20:12 God speaking through John the apostle does not say they are being punished for their sins. The Lord looks to see if their name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life. Their 'works' are judged.

Sinners do not have to wait and try to figure out if God has decreed them to go to Heaven, all they have to do is say, "Come into my heart Lord Jesus and take away my sins."

 

[All about Grace]

Originally posted by whatever:
AaG,

Here's something even simpler. How many verses in the OP mention Christ dying for the sins of 'few'? How many verses in the OP mention Christ dying for the sins of 'many'? Just be honest.

Why are you asking me this question? This is the question TULIP's L must answer.

Are you suggesting Christ died for the "many"?

 

[whatever]

AaG,

I am asking you because of your continued gross misrepresentation of what we believe. You keep talking about the 'few'. We, along with the Bible, speak of the 'many' for whose sins Christ died.

Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Are you suggesting Christ died for the "many"?

I am flat out saying it, because that's what the Bible says.

Now, where are the verses from the OP that suggest that Christ probably didn't die for your sins?

 

[HanSola2000]

Post removed for inflammatory language and personal attacks.

[ October 23, 2005, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by All about Grace:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by whatever:
AaG,

Here's something even simpler. How many verses in the OP mention Christ dying for the sins of 'few'? How many verses in the OP mention Christ dying for the sins of 'many'? Just be honest. [/qb]

Why are you asking me this question? This is the question TULIP's L must answer.

Are you suggesting Christ died for the "many"? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]According to Christ in Matt 7 "the MANY" are going to hell and the "FEW" are going to heaven.

Matt 7
13 "" Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 ""For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

To those Calvinists saying that it is the MANY not the FEW that Christ died for -- Did Christ get that wrong in Matt 7?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[2BHizown]

Christ died for all that were given to HIm by the Father, just as He said in John 6 : 37. To say that He died for ALL makes HIs plan a failure and we do know that HIs Word does not return to HIm void but it ACOMPLISHES what He pleases, which is the salvation of the chosen ones! NO failure there, He did just what He originally intended to do! He didnt leave my salvation up to a mere human will or decision but planned it, carried it out and completed it!! God is good!!

 

[Ray Berrian]

God is good; but your theology is unScriptureal and borders on giving too much credit to the Devil. Jesus plan to make salvation available to all is right. Human sinners frustrate His grand hope for all to enjoy eternal life and Adam and Eve originally experienced.

Ray

 

[2BHizown]

I'm sorry but my God is bigger than that and nothing or no one frustrates His plan!! He gave me to Christ in eternity past, regenerated my heart and drew me to HIm, just as planned and now I am HIs forever, without a doubt!
I always feel sorry for those who have a God that takes a chance on whether or not they just might decide to "accept" Him! Not a chance that that is true, thankfully!! God is sovereign! Why dont the Armenians allow for a sovereign God?

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
God is good; but your theology is unScriptureal and borders on giving too much credit to the Devil. Jesus plan to make salvation available to all is right. Human sinners frustrate His grand hope for all to enjoy eternal life and Adam and Eve originally experienced.

Ray

Ray,

Would you mind explaining where anyone gave any credit at all to the Devil?

 

[All about Grace]

I am flat out saying it, because that's what the Bible says.

Now, where are the verses from the OP that suggest that Christ probably didn't die for your sins?

Matt 7 indicates many follow the broad path to destruction and few pursue the narrow path to life.

I am sure you would not suggest that most people are part of the "elect".

Either way - it does not change the premise. Are you saying it is a misrepresentation of limited atonement to say that there is a strong possibility a believer's children may not be covered by the sacrifice? What is the misrepresenation?

 

[Ray Berrian]

whatever,

If I were the Devil I would be 'jumping up and down with joy' when people say that Jesus only died for some people. Whoever preaches this alleged kind of Gospel is preaching ideas that even he would agree with about lost sinners.

In the light of the truth of John 3:16 those who preach and teach these, let's say, Calvinistic attempts at finding the truth, are actively helping Satan by saying God, in His wisdom only wants some of His favored souls to be saved.

The enemy of souls will gladly respond to such a claim. This suggests that probably, sinners, will have a difficult time in trying to persuade God to save their souls, because the limitations have already been set in the heart and mind of the Godhead.

 

[whatever]

Ray,

If I were the Devil I would be 'jumping up and down with joy' to find that the death of Christ could be rendered ineffective for everyone that I could deceive or keep blind to the truth of the gospel.

All sinners who desire salvation receive it. You have no basis for suggesting otherwise.