Vicar of Jesus Christ?

[DHK]

Biblical Christians do not deny Biblical truth. Most evangelicals will not deny what I have told you. Who disagrees with me? Cults? Some mainline denominations that are now liberal and have left the fundamentals of the faith. Some of them you don't agree with either as they deny the deity of Christ, a literal hell and heaven, the resurrection of Christ, etc. Of course they disagree with me. But of evangelical churches concerning the matters of salvation that I have presented to you, who disagrees?
Yes, that is what I said. Right?


Who disagrees with me? My teachings are orthodox in the respect that they are the historic teachings of the Christian faith passed down from the apostles through the early Christians until now. Prove me wrong.
Your beliefs come from paganism: transubstantiation, purgatory, indulgences, the assumption of Mary, immaculate conception, the rosary, praying to the dead, etc. These are anti-Biblical doctrines, not found in the Scriptures whose origin is in paganism.

Who is right? The one who can defend their faith in the Word of God; the one who has a true and living faith with Christ.

The Bible says:
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
--Let me ask you this one final question:

Does the spirit that dwells in you bear witness with your spirit that you are a child of God?
How do you know?

Now YOU are the one with orthodox Christian beliefs? I'll put that one down next to the "1st Baptist Church of Jerusalem". Bless your heart, you are indeed so precious,

From the Oxford Dictionary:
or·tho·dox adjective
1. (of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved:
--One who has "orthodox beliefs are those that are "right or true," and generally established and approved."
That is the meaning. Your beliefs are of the RCC ONLY! They are not the generally established and approved, right and true doctrines. Who else believes in the assumption of Mary. Did you know it was only made an official doctrine in 1950? Who else believes in Purgatory and indulgences, in limbo, in transubstantiation, etc. Only the RCC, These are not orthodox beliefs. They are very unorthodox beliefs. They are the beliefs of a cult; pagan beliefs. They are outside of the Bible and outside of Christianity. If not, show me their origin; demonstrate that they belong in Christianity; demonstrate that they have a Biblical basis. You have not answered any of these questions before though I have asked you to do so. Why are you avoiding the obvious???????????

 

[utilyan]

They command FAITH in Jesus Christ to enter the Kingdom. You argued over and over a Jew or a Muslim could REJECT faith in Jesus Christ and still be saved as long as they loved their neighbour. You even declared Jesus' teaching on this FAITH that of satans.

As far as "worshiping" goes...

John 4:23-24, "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit ..." (John 3 born again, Romans 8 must have the Spirit of Christ/God)

Question for you, Did Jesus claim to be God? Do you worship God/Jesus in spirit?

Yes and Yes. Given your requirements all the old testament folks like Moses are damned.

Luke 12
41Peter said, “Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?” 42And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? 43“Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44“Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45“But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.


If I said Joe Blow is God and your damned if you don't believe it, are you now required to go through scripture to verify the validity of Joe Blow?

There is a particular measure of faith and reasonableness given to you.


Romans 11
30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

You were shown mercy on account of someone else's disobedience. Can you show them mercy? The way ones judge the Jews and the Muslims I see a man fixing his own noose, We are not the judge.

Its by God's grace we are not in their shoes. We are no better then they.

I trust God, Last I heard he had a lot more understanding and kindness then I do.

 

[utilyan]

From the Oxford Dictionary:
or·tho·dox adjective
1. (of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved:
--One who has "orthodox beliefs are those that are "right or true," and generally established and approved."
That is the meaning. Your beliefs are of the RCC ONLY! They are not the generally established and approved, right and true doctrines. Who else believes in the assumption of Mary. Did you know it was only made an official doctrine in 1950? Who else believes in Purgatory and indulgences, in limbo, in transubstantiation, etc. Only the RCC, These are not orthodox beliefs. They are very unorthodox beliefs. They are the beliefs of a cult; pagan beliefs. They are outside of the Bible and outside of Christianity. If not, show me their origin; demonstrate that they belong in Christianity; demonstrate that they have a Biblical basis. You have not answered any of these questions before though I have asked you to do so. Why are you avoiding the obvious???????????

Purgatory happens. Only perfect and sinless are before God in heaven.

So when you die between there and heaven there is a point you become a partaker of the divinity.

Purgatory doesn't have to happen on "TIME" parallel to us. Even death the common understood entrance may not be required. God is outside of time.

Will you sin in heaven too? not likely being purged of all defects.

The moment you go from sinning to not sinning, call it what you will, we call this purgatory.

If you were to make up a word for this event where you stop sinning/being a sinner, whatever that word is = purgatory.

We don't believe God is merely going to press a delete button on you and rewrite you. If that's all he wanted he could have that at a blink of an eye. That's easy. piece of cake.

Instead he wants YOU the actual you TO LEARN from him, It will be you who presses the delete button on your defects.


Insisting you are worthless is sweet when its sincere that first time around, after that its just false humility that thousand times worst then a honest pride. You have no authority on setting your own price tag. God sets the price tag he said you are worth more then Jesus Christ.
The appreciation of evil learning good.

The guy dying of thirst has a appreciation of water someone who always had a drink might not comprehend.

Its out of kindness and love God would even bother with this business. Blink of an eye, he doesn't have to do any of this stuff or put up with anything at all. It is his good sincere pleasure to guide you in right ways. You as you are.

 

[Adonia]

From the Oxford Dictionary:
or·tho·dox adjective
1. (of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved:
--One who has "orthodox beliefs are those that are "right or true," and generally established and approved."
That is the meaning. Your beliefs are of the RCC ONLY! They are not the generally established and approved, right and true doctrines. Who else believes in the assumption of Mary. Did you know it was only made an official doctrine in 1950? Who else believes in Purgatory and indulgences, in limbo, in transubstantiation, etc. Only the RCC, These are not orthodox beliefs. They are very unorthodox beliefs. They are the beliefs of a cult; pagan beliefs. They are outside of the Bible and outside of Christianity. If not, show me their origin; demonstrate that they belong in Christianity; demonstrate that they have a Biblical basis. You have not answered any of these questions before though I have asked you to do so. Why are you avoiding the obvious???????????

And your beliefs are certainly not "orthodox", especially when it comes to Christianity. You reject most of what orthodox Christianity is such as the Apostolic Succession and the Sacraments. Even when the great schism of Christianity happened in the 11th century, our Eastern Orthodox brothers never rejected these doctrines, and even the reformer (heretic) Martin Luther never rejected many of them either. Or the Methodists, the Anglicans and others.

No, you are the one who has the un-orthodox brand of Christianity, a belief in one specifically called the Baptist faith tradition that didn't come about until the 18th century! Good grief, don't you know anything about history?

 

[DHK]

Purgatory happens. Only perfect and sinless are before God in heaven.

When I was saved/born again/regenerated/sanctified/forgiven, etc.
God forgave all my sins: past, present and future. He sanctified me, that is put me in a state of perfect holiness setting me apart for his service. He clothed me with the righteousness of Jesus Christ meaning that even now, when God looks down at me, he doesn't see the sinful DHK, but rather the righteousness of Jesus Christ. He sees me perfectly holy and righteous in His sight for I am clothed in the righteousness of Christ, that righteousness that he gave me the day I trusted Him.
Therefore, I have no fear when I stand before God.
If you should stand before God before this day ends, and he were to ask you: "Why should I let you into my heaven?" What would you answer?

BTW, there is no such thing as Purgatory. You only made an assumption without evidence. Unless you give evidence, unsubstantiated opinions are simply the vain imaginations of foolish men.
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

So when you die between there and heaven there is a point you become a partaker of the divinity.

That is what Satan said to Eve. Do you think he was telling the truth when he was lying about God? Really?
That is what the Mormons teach. Do you believe in Mormon theology? Are you one of them? Is that why you label yourself "bad Catholic"?

Note what Paul said:
2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
--There is no purgatory. As soon as Paul left his earthly body (that is, as soon as he died), he would be with the Lord, in His very presence. That is one thing he was confident of. "We are confident, I say."

Purgatory doesn't have to happen on "TIME" parallel to us. Even death the common understood entrance may not be required. God is outside of time.

Purgatory doesn't happen at all. It is a vain philosophy of vain men.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Will you sin in heaven too? not likely being purged of all defects.

The moment you go from sinning to not sinning, call it what you will, we call this purgatory.

Absolute foolishness. Then why "be purged"? If sinless what is the purpose of being "purged"? "Purged" from what, if not sin?
Why don't you learn about your own false religion?

pur·ga·to·ry
noun

[*]1.(in Roman Catholic doctrine) a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven.

--hmmm, A place where Only Catholic sinners will expiate (pay for, do penance for) their sins. Nope, Purgatory is a sinful, sinful, sinful place where all those sins have to "purged," thus the name "Purg-atory." place of purging. Learn your own theology!

If you were to make up a word for this event where you stop sinning/being a sinner, whatever that word is = purgatory.

Go back and learn your Catechism.

We don't believe God is merely going to press a delete button on you and rewrite you. If that's all he wanted he could have that at a blink of an eye. That's easy. piece of cake.

I often think that you especially, by the things that you write should have stopped after that fourth word
i.e. "We don't believe God." It fits in better with many of the things you have written.
God has already pressed the delete button concerning my sins. They are already forgiven. I stand before him as completely holy, justified and righteous.
Here is what the Bible says of those who have trusted him and know that they are saved by His blood:
Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
--All my sins are forgiven: past, present, and future. There is no condemnation against me, for I am in Christ Jesus.
What a wonderful truth! Hallelujah!

Instead he wants YOU the actual you TO LEARN from him, It will be you who presses the delete button on your defects.

"No. Jesus paid it all; All to him I owe; Sin has left it crimson stain; He washed it white as snow."
--It is a beautiful and scriptural song. Jesus paid it all. He atoned for my sins. There is nothing I can do. Christ already pressed that delete button. Note that last line: "He washed it white as snow." There is nothing more to delete.

Insisting you are worthless is sweet when its sincere that first time around, after that its just false humility that thousand times worst then a honest pride. You have no authority on setting your own price tag. God sets the price tag he said you are worth more then Jesus Christ.

Man is of great worth, His value was and is great enough that Jesus came down from the glories of heaven, lived among men a humble life, first as a lowly carpenter, and then as a wandering teacher without a place to lay his head for rest. Finally betrayed by one of his own, he was tried in an illegal court, set up under false pretenses, charged with false accusations which could not be proven, for which there was no evidence, mocked, scorned, cruelly treated and finally put to death by one of the cruelest methods, that of crucifixion. He was treated as a criminal when it was the rest of mankind, you and I that were the criminals.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

[DHK]

And your beliefs are certainly not "orthodox", especially when it comes to Christianity.

You make statements without evidence. Prove your statements or don't post them. Otherwise you are simply making public false accusations.

You reject most of what orthodox Christianity is such as the Apostolic Succession

Belief in apostolic succession is not an orthodox belief. It is a man-made belief and cannot be proven. Cults like the Mormons believe in it.
This is a very unbiblical doctrine. You can read more about it here:
http://www.gotquestions.org/apostolic-succession.html

and the Sacraments.

The Bible does not speak of sacraments, but rather of ordinances, of which there are only two: baptism and the Lord's Supper.
In the RCC there are seven sacraments, and not one of them can "impart grace" that which a sacrament is supposed to do. This again is a false teaching. Error.

Even when the great schism of Christianity happened in the 11th century, our Eastern Orthodox brothers never rejected these doctrines, and even the reformer (heretic) Martin Luther never rejected many of them either. Or the Methodists, the Anglicans and others.

Your definition of orthodox is wrong. Orthodox doctrine is historic doctrine accepted by the churches. The RCC doesn't believe in orthodox doctrine; their doctrine is heterodox not orthodox! Learn the difference.
As far as the denominations you mentioned, they cooperated together. That means there was some degree of ecumenicism between them.

No, you are the one who has the un-orthodox brand of Christianity, a belief in one specifically called the Baptist faith tradition that didn't come about until the 18th century! Good grief, don't you know anything about history?

The RCC never existed before the fourth century.
Peter was never in Rome, proven through recent archaeological finds. They found his tomb and his remains in Jerusalem.
If Peter was never in Rome (which we have known all along), he never was a pope/bishop, or leader of any kind. Thus the RCC was not built on Peter, and this claim is at the historical base of what the RCC claims. When the foundation is found to be false, then the rest of it collapses. That is what happens here. You have a false theology.

I can show you where your theology is false, and I have. Those parts of my posts you don't respond to. Do you have a reason being non-responsive?
Then I can show you how everything I believe is in the Bible. Can you show me anything that I believe is not based on the Bible?
My doctrine is not based on tradition, as you falsely allege, but rather on the Scriptures.
Your doctrine, on the other hand, comes from the vain imagination of sinful man.
Whose do you think will stand in the day of judgment?

 

[Adonia]

You make statements without evidence. Prove your statements or don't post them. Otherwise you are simply making public false accusations.

Belief in apostolic succession is not an orthodox belief. It is a man-made belief and cannot be proven. Cults like the Mormons believe in it.
This is a very unbiblical doctrine. You can read more about it here:
http://www.gotquestions.org/apostolic-succession.html

The Bible does not speak of sacraments, but rather of ordinances, of which there are only two: baptism and the Lord's Supper.
In the RCC there are seven sacraments, and not one of them can "impart grace" that which a sacrament is supposed to do. This again is a false teaching. Error.

Your definition of orthodox is wrong. Orthodox doctrine is historic doctrine accepted by the churches. The RCC doesn't believe in orthodox doctrine; their doctrine is heterodox not orthodox! Learn the difference.
As far as the denominations you mentioned, they cooperated together. That means there was some degree of ecumenicism between them.

The RCC never existed before the fourth century.
Peter was never in Rome, proven through recent archaeological finds. They found his tomb and his remains in Jerusalem.
If Peter was never in Rome (which we have known all along), he never was a pope/bishop, or leader of any kind. Thus the RCC was not built on Peter, and this claim is at the historical base of what the RCC claims. When the foundation is found to be false, then the rest of it collapses. That is what happens here. You have a false theology.

I can show you where your theology is false, and I have. Those parts of my posts you don't respond to. Do you have a reason being non-responsive?
Then I can show you how everything I believe is in the Bible. Can you show me anything that I believe is not based on the Bible?
My doctrine is not based on tradition, as you falsely allege, but rather on the Scriptures.
Your doctrine, on the other hand, comes from the vain imagination of sinful man.
Whose do you think will stand in the day of judgment?

And my only response is all that you have is your own interpretation of what you believe God's word really says. That's it in a nutshell. Just because YOU say it is what GOD is saying and that it is "the truth" does not make it true. The one thing that you allude to that is true is what we will find on the day of Judgement. We shall in the end surely see which doctrines will stand.

As for the RCC and paganism, do you celebrate the Christmas season? Easter? Then you are part of the Christian takeover of the underlying pagan holidays. And have you ever heard of Mithra or Mithraism? The similarities between that ancient religion and Christianity are compelling.

 

[utilyan]

When I was saved/born again/regenerated/sanctified/forgiven, etc.
God forgave all my sins: past, present and future. He sanctified me, that is put me in a state of perfect holiness setting me apart for his service. He clothed me with the righteousness of Jesus Christ meaning that even now, when God looks down at me, he doesn't see the sinful DHK, but rather the righteousness of Jesus Christ. He sees me perfectly holy and righteous in His sight for I am clothed in the righteousness of Christ, that righteousness that he gave me the day I trusted Him.
Therefore, I have no fear when I stand before God.
If you should stand before God before this day ends, and he were to ask you: "Why should I let you into my heaven?" What would you answer?

BTW, there is no such thing as Purgatory. You only made an assumption without evidence. Unless you give evidence, unsubstantiated opinions are simply the vain imaginations of foolish men.
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


That is what Satan said to Eve. Do you think he was telling the truth when he was lying about God? Really?
That is what the Mormons teach. Do you believe in Mormon theology? Are you one of them? Is that why you label yourself "bad Catholic"?

Note what Paul said:
2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
--There is no purgatory. As soon as Paul left his earthly body (that is, as soon as he died), he would be with the Lord, in His very presence. That is one thing he was confident of. "We are confident, I say."


Purgatory doesn't happen at all. It is a vain philosophy of vain men.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


Absolute foolishness. Then why "be purged"? If sinless what is the purpose of being "purged"? "Purged" from what, if not sin?
Why don't you learn about your own false religion?

--hmmm, A place where Only Catholic sinners will expiate (pay for, do penance for) their sins. Nope, Purgatory is a sinful, sinful, sinful place where all those sins have to "purged," thus the name "Purg-atory." place of purging. Learn your own theology!

Go back and learn your Catechism.


I often think that you especially, by the things that you write should have stopped after that fourth word
i.e. "We don't believe God." It fits in better with many of the things you have written.
God has already pressed the delete button concerning my sins. They are already forgiven. I stand before him as completely holy, justified and righteous.
Here is what the Bible says of those who have trusted him and know that they are saved by His blood:
Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
--All my sins are forgiven: past, present, and future. There is no condemnation against me, for I am in Christ Jesus.
What a wonderful truth! Hallelujah!

"No. Jesus paid it all; All to him I owe; Sin has left it crimson stain; He washed it white as snow."
--It is a beautiful and scriptural song. Jesus paid it all. He atoned for my sins. There is nothing I can do. Christ already pressed that delete button. Note that last line: "He washed it white as snow." There is nothing more to delete.


Man is of great worth, His value was and is great enough that Jesus came down from the glories of heaven, lived among men a humble life, first as a lowly carpenter, and then as a wandering teacher without a place to lay his head for rest. Finally betrayed by one of his own, he was tried in an illegal court, set up under false pretenses, charged with false accusations which could not be proven, for which there was no evidence, mocked, scorned, cruelly treated and finally put to death by one of the cruelest methods, that of crucifixion. He was treated as a criminal when it was the rest of mankind, you and I that were the criminals.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

I believe in God, I just don't believe God is a idiot limited to sticking his hand up and work one like a puppet. Nor do I believe God is such a horrible teacher he can't churn out any good student other then himself.

God will school a person one way or another.

We are called to be partakers of divine nature.


2 peter 1

4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.

Romans 8
17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

There is no sinning in heaven. See the problem the License to Sin view is God is GOOD. So he is not going to neglect a child to remain in sin.

This moment when you graduate, cease from evil, That is purgatory.



1 peter 4
8Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.

Someone forgot to tell Pete only Jesus Christ covers sins? Its in there. Its cooperative.

Romans 8
28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

When we get that word sunergeó thrown around there is a cooperation.


2 Corinthians 6
1And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain—

Again scripture showing cooperation not only receiving grace but giving it.

Synergountes Its where you get the word synergy from.




Matthew 24
45“Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46“Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 47“Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48“But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


This is a FAITHUL and SENSIBLE slave...... ends up being a evil slave. Falls, was appointed put in charge by master.

 

[steaver]

Given your requirements all the old testament folks like Moses are damned.

Woe, woe, woe there my friend. I am just a man, I am not God, I only told you what God said, so you are really saying "given God's requirements all the OT folks are damned". That would be a grave error on your understanding of the Scripture.

But we have the NT, thankfully, or else the whole world would by doomed to man-made religions such as the RCC.

Just to remind all the folks, here is what God has said, not steaver, God the Son....."He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3)

Let's see, who should I believe? Utilyan's RCC doctrine or Jesus' doctrine? Well I think that's a no brainer!

If I said Joe Blow is God and your damned if you don't believe it, are you now required to go through scripture to verify the validity of Joe Blow?

If YOU said it, it would mean nothing much. You may get followers though, look at all the man-made religions of the world lead by men's words.

But then we have the words of God for any who desire to follow the truth of these matters...

Acts 2:21, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Acts 4:12, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

So who's words shall we accept as the truth of these matters? Utilyan's words which declare no belief in any name of God is required for salvation? Or God's words which declares there is a name and no other name will be given under heaven among men, whereby we must be saved!!

So YOUR Joe Blow example as a protest against God's revealed name Jesus Christ just looks really bad for you. What I don't understand Utilyan is why you fight so vehemently against the words of God!!

 

[DHK]

And my only response is all that you have is your own interpretation of what you believe God's word really says. That's it in a nutshell. Just because YOU say it is what GOD is saying and that it is "the truth" does not make it true. The one thing that you allude to that is true is what we will find on the day of Judgement. We shall in the end surely see which doctrines will stand.

It is not my interpretation because I say so; it is because God says so. It is because (through the principle of sola scriptura) I can go to other scriptures in the Bible and show you that scripture does not contradict scripture, and the things that I believe are taught consistently throughout the entire Bible. You can't do that. In fact many of your doctrines are not mentioned in even one verse of the Bible. If it can't be backed up by the Bible it is not of God.
Your beliefs are not better than those of a cult. Your arguments is the same as a cult.

I believe these things (not because they are in Scripture) but because that is what the J.W.'s teach me.
I believe these things (not because they are in Scripture) but because that is what the Mormons teach me.
I believe these things (not because they are in Scripture) but because that is what the RCC teaches me.
--You are indoctrinated by the RCC and cannot prove your beliefs through the Scripture and therefore would rather believe heresy instead of the truth of the Word of God.

I already know what will happen on the judgment day. I have a relationship with Jesus Christ.
It is vital and real. He speaks to me through the Word of God and when I pray to Him I know he hears. He directed me to one of the most difficult fields in the world, a mission field that 99% of western people would never even consider going to. People today still don't want me to go there. But I do what God wants me to do, not man.

As for the RCC and paganism, do you celebrate the Christmas season?

No. I have not had a Christmas tree since the day I have been saved which has been (hard to calculate--give me time), over 45 years ago. Easter? No. I celebrate Resurrection Sunday, and in some manner do so every Sunday.

Then you are part of the Christian takeover of the underlying pagan holidays. And have you ever heard of Mithra or Mithraism? The similarities between that ancient religion and Christianity are compelling.

I have heard of it all and have nothing to do with it.
Your pagan worship runs much deeper than that. You bow down to idols.
You pray to the dead. (necromancy)
Purgatory is a pagan institution or belief.
There are many more.

 

[utilyan]

Woe, woe, woe there my friend. I am just a man, I am not God, I only told you what God said, so you are really saying "given God's requirements all the OT folks are damned". That would be a grave error on your understanding of the Scripture.

But we have the NT, thankfully, or else the whole world would by doomed to man-made religions such as the RCC.

Just to remind all the folks, here is what God has said, not steaver, God the Son....."He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3)

Let's see, who should I believe? Utilyan's RCC doctrine or Jesus' doctrine? Well I think that's a no brainer!



If YOU said it, it would mean nothing much. You may get followers though, look at all the man-made religions of the world lead by men's words.

But then we have the words of God for any who desire to follow the truth of these matters...

Acts 2:21, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Acts 4:12, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

So who's words shall we accept as the truth of these matters? Utilyan's words which declare no belief in any name of God is required for salvation? Or God's words which declares there is a name and no other name will be given under heaven among men, whereby we must be saved!!

So YOUR Joe Blow example as a protest against God's revealed name Jesus Christ just looks really bad for you. What I don't understand Utilyan is why you fight so vehemently against the words of God!!

Steaver, you are not God.

Jesus Christ did not borrow Satan's conditions. He is nothing like the Devil.

You are against Christ , when asked what are conditions for eternal life, it is Love God and Love Neighbor.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Steaver, you are not God.

Jesus Christ did not borrow Satan's conditions. He is nothing like the Devil.

You are against Christ , when asked what are conditions for eternal life, it is Love God and Love Neighbor.

Quite right!
Luke 10:25-28. And behold a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"
So he answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbour as yourself.'"
And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you shall live."'

Now Utilyan; do you really want eternal life on those terms? Are you absolutely sure that you can fulfil them in full, constantly, every day of your life? Or are you going to become a Christian by despairing of your own righteousness, and trusting instead in the perfect righteousness and obedience of the Lord Jesus Christ, so as to be saved by faith (Philippians 3:9)?

 

[utilyan]

Quite right!
Luke 10:25-28. And behold a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"
So he answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbour as yourself.'"
And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you shall live."'

Now Utilyan; do you really want eternal life on those terms? Are you absolutely sure that you can fulfil them in full, constantly, every day of your life? Or are you going to become a Christian by despairing of your own righteousness, and trusting instead in the perfect righteousness and obedience of the Lord Jesus Christ, so as to be saved by faith (Philippians 3:9)?

There is nothing I can do as to be credited with eternal life.
My hope is built on nothing less the Jesus Christ's righteousness.
On Christ solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand.

Just as Christ can tell a cripple man get up and walk, he told me Love God and Love your neighbor.

You can buy one thing not the other? I love God and my neighbor, easily a JOY in Judgment day.

Because I love Jesus, I have a complete joy today, eternal life is not even on the radar.

 

[DHK]

Steaver, you are not God.

Jesus Christ did not borrow Satan's conditions. He is nothing like the Devil.

You are against Christ , when asked what are conditions for eternal life, it is Love God and Love Neighbor.

The Pharisees asked Jesus who he is. They, like you, didn't know. What did Christ answer them.
Listen to some of the conversation:

John 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
--Jesus is deity. He never changes. He is the same: yesterday, today, forever. "The same that I told you from the beginning," he answered.

Then Jesus stated a glorious truth:
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
--They would kill him (crucify him). They would eventually realize that he is the Messiah, and it is the Father that works through Him, for He came to do the will of His Father.
What was the result?

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
--The result was salvation; salvation through faith alone; not salvation through love. There is no love here, only faith. They believed on him for the words that he spoke.

Then Jesus turned to the Jews and told them that they could be set free by the truth.
They arrogantly answered that Abraham was their Father, and they were never in bondage to any man (a lie), for they were in great bondage in Egypt.

But Jesus answers:
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
--They may had love for one another, but they didn't have faith in Christ. They committed sin and were in bondage to sin.

Again Jesus teaches them:
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
--Only Christ could make them truly free and that freedom would come through faith in Him as Messiah.
--But because of their sin of unbelief (and hatred), they sought to kill him.

After some nasty accusations from the Jews Jesus responds about love:
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Notice that love is a work that follows salvation. If they truly were the children of Abraham, then everyone would know it, for true children, that is true believers have love. They would be known of their fruit; they had no fruit, no love. Thus they were not true children.

Here is what their fruit proved:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
--Love doesn't save. But the lack of it could be an evidence of where you come from.

And just because one "says" they love, doesn't mean they do. Judas pretended to love Jesus for three years.
There will be many in that day that shall call him Lord, Lord, but Christ will say unto them "Depart from me into everlasting fire for I never you.

It is not so much a matter of love (a work), but a matter of a relationship which comes through faith, a matter of "knowing Jesus as one's Lord and Savior and developing a personal relationship with him.
No relationship; no salvation.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You are against Christ , when asked what are conditions for eternal life, it is Love God and Love Neighbor.

eternal life is not even on the radar.

Make your mind up. You were the one talking about eternal life.

 

[utilyan]

The Pharisees asked Jesus who he is. They, like you, didn't know. What did Christ answer them.
Listen to some of the conversation:

John 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
--Jesus is deity. He never changes. He is the same: yesterday, today, forever. "The same that I told you from the beginning," he answered.

Then Jesus stated a glorious truth:
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
--They would kill him (crucify him). They would eventually realize that he is the Messiah, and it is the Father that works through Him, for He came to do the will of His Father.
What was the result?

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
--The result was salvation; salvation through faith alone; not salvation through love. There is no love here, only faith. They believed on him for the words that he spoke.

Then Jesus turned to the Jews and told them that they could be set free by the truth.
They arrogantly answered that Abraham was their Father, and they were never in bondage to any man (a lie), for they were in great bondage in Egypt.

But Jesus answers:
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
--They may had love for one another, but they didn't have faith in Christ. They committed sin and were in bondage to sin.

Again Jesus teaches them:
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
--Only Christ could make them truly free and that freedom would come through faith in Him as Messiah.
--But because of their sin of unbelief (and hatred), they sought to kill him.

After some nasty accusations from the Jews Jesus responds about love:
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Notice that love is a work that follows salvation. If they truly were the children of Abraham, then everyone would know it, for true children, that is true believers have love. They would be known of their fruit; they had no fruit, no love. Thus they were not true children.

Here is what their fruit proved:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
--Love doesn't save. But the lack of it could be an evidence of where you come from.

And just because one "says" they love, doesn't mean they do. Judas pretended to love Jesus for three years.
There will be many in that day that shall call him Lord, Lord, but Christ will say unto them "Depart from me into everlasting fire for I never you.

It is not so much a matter of love (a work), but a matter of a relationship which comes through faith, a matter of "knowing Jesus as one's Lord and Savior and developing a personal relationship with him.
No relationship; no salvation.

Faith without Love describes Satan perfectly.


Without love, You can't know who God is.

1 john 4
8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.


Those who are unsatisfied of Christ's command create the idea of who he is as an excuse to disobey what he commands.


God doesn't have to pay me to Love God and Love my Neighbor.
I am a son of God.

The prostitute weighs the command of God, doing only what gives reward, hey guys you don't have to love God or neighbor, that doesn't give us salvation, nor money or anything it only takes away.

When one has grown in some spiritual maturity, They take themselves out of the equation there is no "what is in it for me".


Jesus told me to do it. Crack that first. Oh they don't give heaven coupons for doing what Jesus says? Satan even offers a car and great house for not doing what Jesus says too.

The command is Love God, Love your neighbor.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The command is Love God, Love your neighbour.

But that's not the command, is it?
The command is: "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God the Lord is One. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength and with all your mind,' And the second, like it, is this: You shall love your neighbour as yourself" (Mark 12:29-31).

Again I ask you; are you doing that? Constantly, perfectly, every part of every day? Otherwise, as with all works, it is not acceptable to God.
Leviticus 22:21. 'It must be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no defect in it.'

There was only ever one truly perfect sacrifice without defect. I'm putting my faith in that. Now, having been brought near to God through faith in Christ, I can truly love Him because I know Him, and my poor, weak, fitful love is accepted because of Jesus Christ.

Jesus, my Shepherd, Husband, Friend,
My Prophet, Priest and King,
My Lord, my life, my way, my end,
Accept the praise I bring.

Weak is the effort of my heart,
And cold my warmest thought;
But when I see Thee as Thou art,
I'll praise Thee as I ought.' [John Newton]

 

[utilyan]

But that's not the command, is it?
The command is: "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God the Lord is One. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength and with all your mind,' And the second, like it, is this: You shall love your neighbour as yourself" (Mark 12:29-31).

Again I ask you; are you doing that? Constantly, perfectly, every part of every day? Otherwise, as with all works, it is not acceptable to God.
Leviticus 22:21. 'It must be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no defect in it.'

There was only ever one truly perfect sacrifice without defect. I'm putting my faith in that. Now, having been brought near to God through faith in Christ, I can truly love Him because I know Him, and my poor, weak, fitful love is accepted because of Jesus Christ.

Jesus, my Shepherd, Husband, Friend,
My Prophet, Priest and King,
My Lord, my life, my way, my end,
Accept the praise I bring.

Weak is the effort of my heart,
And cold my warmest thought;
But when I see Thee as Thou art,
I'll praise Thee as I ought.' [John Newton]

Well according to your own standard, Your attempt at preaching the word of God is not acceptable to God.

Common sense is if all and only power was found in faith alone, Then you'd trust Jesus to handle it.

Remember all credit goes to God.

Let me take your position, stretched out to its most SINCERE practice.

Martin I want you to come to Jesus. Do I talk to you about it? NOPE that's works.
Do I talk to Jesus about it? NOPE that's works too.
Jesus gets a thumbs up without me even mentioning you. That's it DONE.



James 4

8Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.


Gee I wonder how martin translate this........ Well if he did faith alone BACKWARDS.......
Then this probably means God DRAWs to you then YOU will draw to him...........Tongue

 

[steaver]

You are against Christ , when asked what are conditions for eternal life, it is Love God and Love Neighbor.

There is nothing I can do as to be credited with eternal life.

Which way do you want it Utilyan?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Well according to your own standard, Your attempt at preaching the word of God is not acceptable to God.

You really don't get it, do you? To the unsaved, anything that one does to get right with God is unacceptable because it is flawed by sin. All one can do it to cast oneself upon Christ as a wretched sinner and trust in His shed blood to save. Once one is saved by grace, then one can perform 'the good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.' (Eph. 2:10).

James 4

8Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Gee I wonder how martin translate this........ Well if he did faith alone BACKWARDS.......
Then this probably means God DRAWs to you then YOU will draw to him...........Tongue

to you too. Who is James writing to? The saved or the unsaved? Well, he keeps calling them 'brethren,' so it seems clear that he's writing to believers. It would be no good at all telling unbelievers to purify their hearts, firstly because as unbelievers they wouldn't believe you, and secondly, 'Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to doing evil' (Jer. 13:23). Only God can change an unbeliever's heart ((Ezekiel 36:26ff).