Video: Why James White Is Sick of The Calvinist Club

[Yeshua1]

I understand the things James White says in this video. There does seem to be too many arrogant Calvinists on the internet, and I think it's in large part an overreaction to ignorance commonly displayed by non-Calvinists on the scriptural proofs for the doctrines of grace.

Too many non-Calvinists seem to outright mock Calvinism, without realizing that Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, and other Protestant Reformers taught the same basic doctrines as John Calvin, as did the church fathers along with numerous passages of scripture.

Here are quotations from the early church fathers supporting the five points of Calvinism, most of whom from before the time of Augustine:
Calvinism in the Early Church (The Doctrines of Grace taught by the Early Church Fathers) | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

Here are passages from the Bible supporting the five points of Calvinism:
What is Calvinism and is it biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org

This is from Luther’s 97 Theses, which he wrote before his 95 Theses:


This ignorance of Calvinism's doctrinal foundations is no excuse, however, to act rudely in return. Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek and love our enemies.

If you truly believe yourself to be among God’s elect, then your attitude should be that of thankfulness and humility, with a desire to serve God and others the rest of your life, no matter how the world and those who claim to be fellow Christians may scorn you.

Many just refuse to accept that Calvinism, at least in regards to proper Sotierology, was well into the early Church!

 

[Mikey]

You're not being very specific. What do you mean by "woke"? I'm a right-leaning libertarian, who believes in police reform and criminal justice reform. Does that make me "woke"?

Are you seriously saying you don't know what "woke" means?

 

[Mikey]

You're not being very specific. What do you mean by "woke"? I'm a right-leaning libertarian, who believes in police reform and criminal justice reform. Does that make me "woke"?

I recommend that you have a watch of these to understand Social Justice/CRT/Woke.

 

[Van]

I don't post on this forum to convince others of Calvinism. If God willed for you to be a Calvinist, you would be a Calvinist. Instead, I am here to provide lines of evidence in favor of Calvinism, so that fellow Calvinists will be strengthened in their Calvinism.

I have no reason to sling mud at non-Calvinists for their biblical and doctrinal inconsistencies, though I wish they would stop misrepresenting Calvinism and its doctrinal foundations.

Right, that is why you do not address questions like why is it hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom, when according to the fiction of irresistible grace, it would not be hard.

 

[George Antonios]

I understand the things James White says in this video. There does seem to be too many arrogant Calvinists on the internet, and I think it's in large part an overreaction to ignorance commonly displayed by non-Calvinists on the scriptural proofs for the doctrines of grace.

Too many non-Calvinists seem to outright mock Calvinism, without realizing that Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, and other Protestant Reformers taught the same basic doctrines as John Calvin, as did the church fathers along with numerous passages of scripture.

Here are quotations from the early church fathers supporting the five points of Calvinism, most of whom from before the time of Augustine:
Calvinism in the Early Church (The Doctrines of Grace taught by the Early Church Fathers) | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

Here are passages from the Bible supporting the five points of Calvinism:
What is Calvinism and is it biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org

This is from Luther’s 97 Theses, which he wrote before his 95 Theses:


This ignorance of Calvinism's doctrinal foundations is no excuse, however, to act rudely in return. Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek and love our enemies.

If you truly believe yourself to be among God’s elect, then your attitude should be that of thankfulness and humility, with a desire to serve God and others the rest of your life, no matter how the world and those who claim to be fellow Christians may scorn you.

A) James White sick of proud Calvinists when most non-Calvinists prefer dealing with other Calvinists than James White precisely because of that problem...
B) It's conceited ignorance to keep saying that non-Calvinists don't understand Calvinism or its historical baggage.
C) Calvinism does not produce humility, but thankfully, the Holy Ghost in Calvinists does.

 

[George Antonios]

A lot of people reject Calvinism simply because they dislike the person of John Calvin. Calvin himself, however, went to great lengths to demonstrate that the doctrines of grace didn't originate with him.

Anti-Calvinists are usually ignorant of church history, that the basic doctrines of Calvinism were already taught by Augustine against Pelagius and Luther against Rome, as well as the scriptural proofs for Calvinism.

The doctrines we know today as “Calvinism” are only called that because it was John Calvin who popularized them. I would use the term "Reformed" instead, but it's too imprecise for most people.

The fact of the matter is that, without the doctrines which later became known as "Calvinism," there would have never been a Protestant Reformation in the first place.

And many Calvinists are ignorant, as I was, of the history behind the development of the system:

 

[Humble Disciple]

Anti-Calvinists are usually also ignorant of church history, that the basic doctrines of Calvinism were already taught by Augustine against Pelagius and Luther against Rome. The doctrines we know today as “Calvinism” are only called that because it was John Calvin who popularized them.

This ignorance, however, is no excuse for Calvinists to act like they are somehow superior to non-Calvinists. It will only further harden people against doctrines that man, in his natural state, already resists.

 

[37818]

Anti-Calvinists are usually also ignorant of church history, that the basic doctrines of Calvinism were already taught by Augustine against Pelagius and Luther against Rome. The doctrines we know today as “Calvinism” are only called that because it was John Calvin who popularized them.

This ignorance, however, is no excuse for Calvinists to act like they are somehow superior to non-Calvinists. It will only further harden people against doctrines that man, in his natural state, already resists.

Calvinism has Biblical bases. Now I am not Calvinist for Biblical reasons. Believing the same Scriptures.

 

[Mikey]

And many Calvinists are ignorant, as I was, of the history behind the development of the system:

What utter rubbish. Laughable

 

[Humble Disciple]

For those looking for a brief, Biblical defense of the five points of Calvinism, here is the free ebook of Five Points: Towards a Deeper Experience of God’s Grace by John Piper.
https://document.desiringgod.org/five-points-en.pdf?ts=1446647340

John Piper strikes me as an example of a humble Calvinist.

 

[37818]

For those looking for a brief, Biblical defense of the five points of Calvinism, here is the free ebook of Five Points: Towards a Deeper Experience of God’s Grace by John Piper.
https://document.desiringgod.org/five-points-en.pdf?ts=1446647340

John Piper strikes me as an example of a humble Calvinist.

Thank you.
I need to take some time to read it before I make any comments.

 

[Humble Disciple]

As R.C. Sproul here explained, Arminians are saved and therefore our brothers in Christ, despite their doctrinal inconsistences:

I certainly hope that Arminians are saved and believe so because I was one for five years after I was converted, before I became Reformed in my theology. I believe that I was in a state of grace at that time.

I think that Arminianism is an extremely defective and weak theology. It has serious consequences and ramifications for the church in general and for the Christian individual in particular.
Are they saved? I always like to say yes, but by a happy inconsistency. If they really believe what they say they believe, then I don’t think they would be saved.

Arminians affirm justification by faith alone, the work of Christ, and all of those orthodox things. However, if you ask them why it is that they’re saved and their neighbor isn’t, they will say that God gave grace both to them and to their neighbor but they said yes to that grace and cooperated with it while their neighbor said no and rejected it.

I say to my Arminian friends: “So, you did the good thing and your neighbor did the bad thing. You have something to boast about, but they have only sin. You have done the right thing, but they’ve done the wrong thing. Your work, in the final analysis, is the decisive factor for your being saved, whereas the bad work of your neighbor is the decisive factor for why they’re not saved.”

When I say that to my Arminian friends, to their credit, they always say, “No, I don’t believe that I’m saved on the basis of my works and that my neighbor is damned by his bad works.” They don’t believe that, but I’m telling them, “That’s what you should say if you’re going to be consistent with your theology.” Fortunately, they’re not consistent with their theology.
Are Arminians saved?

I have no reason to doubt the salvation of Leighton Flowers. I am bothered by how often he displays that, despite claiming to be a former Calvinist, he never understood Calvinism in the first place.

Nominal Calvinists who don't understand the Bible and church history very well will be fooled by Dr. Flowers' claims like Augustine invented the doctrine of unconditional election due to the influence of Manicheism, which is unfortunate.

I don't believe that Dr. Flowers deliberately lies about Calvinism and its doctrinal foundations but instead that, for whatever reason, he's embittered toward Calvinism, thus compromising his objectivity.

 

[Humble Disciple]

 

[Humble Disciple]

I think I finally understand the doctrine of limited atonement. The atonement is limited, not in its power, but in its application.

Jesus died only for those who would believe in Him, not for those who would reject Him. There are numerous passages in the New Testament which teach this.

Limited Atonement - Because God determined that certain ones should be saved as a result of God’s unconditional election, He determined that Christ should die for the elect alone. All whom God has elected and for whom Christ died will be saved (Matthew 1:21; John 10:11; 17:9; Acts 20:28; Romans 8:32; Ephesians 5:25).
What is Calvinism and is it biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org

Limited atonement doesn't mean that those who sincerely desire to be saved will be turned away. Instead, it means that not a drop of Jesus' blood was shed in vain.

Since we don't know the identity of God's elect, we are to preach the Gospel indiscriminately, for it's the hearing of the Gospel by which faith is awakened in the elect:

If you really care about your salvation, that's a sign that you are among the elect.

I donate to India National Inland Mission. Founded by a former Hindu, the organization plants churches throughout India, while operating an orphanage and Bible college:

https://briinstitute.com/mw/ministry.php?ein=956116077

Because of God’s enabling grace acting in His elect, I have faith that my support to foreign missions will be fruitful.

 

[Michael Hollner]

Anti-Calvinists are usually also ignorant of church history, that the basic doctrines of Calvinism were already taught by Augustine against Pelagius and Luther against Rome. The doctrines we know today as “Calvinism” are only called that because it was John Calvin who popularized them.

This ignorance, however, is no excuse for Calvinists to act like they are somehow superior to non-Calvinists. It will only further harden people against doctrines that man, in his natural state, already resists.

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (I Timothy 2:4) KJV.

So who do you agree with on this verse, Dr. White or Spurgeon?

 

[Michael Hollner]

And many Calvinists are ignorant, as I was, of the history behind the development of the system:

Have you studied this system and is there proven documentation to prove it has gnostic origins?

 

[Yeshua1]

Have you studied this system and is there proven documentation to prove it has gnostic origins?

Thought Calvin and Luther were sola scriptura, not "and Gnostic Gospels?"

 

[Yeshua1]

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (I Timothy 2:4) KJV.

So who do you agree with on this verse, Dr. White or Spurgeon?

Do they disagree?

 

[37818]

@Humble Disciple
Again thank you for that link to John Piper's book on the five points of Calvinism. It is a very good presentation of his view.

Ok, so I am still not a Calvinist. I do hold a view on that mankind is totally depraved. And God keeps those whom He saves. Hear this, I believe in an unlimited atonement were God has a limited atonement for His elect. I believe the election is conditional in that it is wholly unmerited on the elect's part. The lost who are called and not elected resisted God's grace.

 

[Yeshua1]

@Humble Disciple
Again thank you for that link to John Piper's book on the five points of Calvinism. It is a very good presentation of his view.

Ok, so I am still not a Calvinist. I do hold a view on that mankind is totally depraved. And God keeps those whom He saves. Hear this, I believe in an unlimited atonement were God has a limited atonement for His elect. I believe the election is conditional in that it is wholly unmerited on the elect's part. The lost who are called and not elected resisted God's grace.

I was once there myself, Amyraldism, one more step and you will become a 5 pointer!