View on Antidpressants

[Convicted by the Spirit]

The story goes like so … You take a visit to your doctor because your tail hurts. Your doctor says you have a nail in your tail. He gives you medication to make the pain go away. He tells you that this will make you feel better but the only way to get rid of the problem is to pull the nail. You say no way and take medication for a while. Times passes and the nail is still in the tail and you are still on antidepressants.


TC,

If you are struggling with a problem that the root problem is physical such as Diabetes, Cancer, bad site or high blood pressure then accept a physical solution that will help a physical problem. If you are dealing with a problem that has its root in the immaterial such as anger, depression, AD/HD or anxiety then you need an immaterial solution. A good example is children and AD/HD … most doctors will tell you they can’t find a physical cause for this problem. But when you examine those children closely you will find they have parents that don’t hold a balance of correction and love. Some how we have started believing doctors and Psychologist who don’t believe in the Holy Scriptures or the fact that man has a BIG problem named sin. Some how we believe that we have chemical imbalances and need medicine to fix all our problems. Antidepressants are helpful in some people that can’t even walk down the street without having a meltdown, but we should not rely on those pills more than God should we? I have taken a lot of the pills Doctors are giving out today and all they do is cover the truth that lies in the heart. Pills will never be the answer because if the problem is sin you can never grow out of sin or cover it up… you repent out of sin.

:saint:

 

[Ed Edwards]

Gina L: //14. You mocked the use of antidepressants and compared
the validity of it with telling people to get hooked on cocaine.//

James_Newman: //Cocaine treats the same symptoms.//

Your body produces stimulants for the brain
to wake you up in the morning
(and other stuff). Your body produces anti-stimulants
for the brain to shut off that effect.
Your body produces depressants for the brain
so you can go to sleep at night (and other things).
Your body produces anti-depressants for the brain
to shut off that effect.

If your body malfunctions and doesn't produce enough
anti-depressants that the brain needs, then your body
needs some help.

Oh, cocaine is a powerful stimulant.
Cocaine does NOT treat the same symptoms that
anti-depredssants treat.


Gina L: //11. You said that women get depressed because they
have careers, and that a career and a family
is an unbiblical principle for a woman.//


James_Newman : //Absolutely. Sorry if that offends
your feminist sensibilities. No I'm not

First, I've been supporting Sister Gina L in prayer for longer
than you have been on the Baptist Board.
Second: 90% of the men I know would have their brains in baggies
by now, if they were shackled with half the tribulations
that Sister Gina L has overcome and continues to overcome.
In fact, I call FOUL. Gina L is totally unworthy of
being called a 'feminist'. Well, that is unless one defines
'feminist' to mean: 'overcommer of great dificulties without
the help of a man'.

 

[Gina B]

Oh Ed, if you were here I'd hug you! raise: (that is ONE versatile smiley!)
Thank you for your kind words and your prayers. I love knowing I have the prayers of other saints.

 

[lgpruitt]

It amazes me. I have left this thread for a few days as it had gotten so....."hateful" to those of us that admit we've had or do have a problem with depression. I came back tonight to glace at it and it's still the same. Those that don't suffer will never understand this problem. Those of us that do, let's start our own support thread! :laugh:

 

[James_Newman]

It amazes me that when someone disagrees with another, they are being 'hateful'. I don't hate anyone on this board. I do have differences of opinion with many of them over many subjects, but that has never been classified as hate until recently.

Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Amen, James!

I am reminded of Paul when he wrote in his epistle, 'And yet, I show unto you a more excellent way.' Christ is the answer to any of our problems in life. True, He does choose to let us suffer some of those problems rather than receive a physical healing.

Again, Paul wrote that he would 'most gladly suffer'...

How much suffering do we actually do when we hide the maladies behind psychology, psychiatry and pills?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Convicted by the Spirit:
//If you are struggling with a problem that the root problem is physical
such as Diabetes, Cancer, bad site or high blood pressure
then accept a physical solution that will help a physical problem.//

All of these have been attributed in the past to demon possession:
diabetes
cancer
bad sight
high blood pressure
but now people say they are physical problems.

Likewise with 'depression'.
It is a physical problem.
I hope the Spirit convinces one of this.

 

[lgpruitt]

Pardon my use of terms. :saint:
Perhaps I used a word that was a bit too strong. I respect differences of opinion. After all, that is what makes all of us unique. It is when the difference of opinion is jabbed down your throat as "wrong" or "sin" and I don't see the bible backing it up that I have a problem with it.
Everyone has the right to an opinion. :thumbs:

It amazes me that when someone disagrees with another, they are being 'hateful'. I don't hate anyone on this board. I do have differences of opinion with many of them over many subjects, but that has never been classified as hate until recently.

Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

 

[Phillip]

If you want to be technical everything around us is made up of chemicals. Check your periodic table. There isn't anything made, except it be made out of chemicals: your body, water, the air that you breath--absolutely everything. Thus according to your logic a lack of the chemicals H2O, two atoms of hydrogen linked to one atom of oxygen will soon cause dehydration. That's not good for your soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan. Those chemicals are very important and the lack thereof will cause detrimental physiological changes. Too much of the chemical NaCl, will also be very harmful. Sodium Chloride can lead to all kinds of harmful side effects if taken in great quantities. Be careful of your salt intake. These are all chemicals. The key is moderation in all things. All chemicals taken into the body are not drugs.

The problem is: "What is moderation?" Surely by reading through this thread you would agree that "moderation" for some is only one cup, while for others it may be five or six. Every one is different. My wife can't take the caffeine in coffee. In fact if she has a cup of tea after 2:00 p.m. she has a hard time sleeping. Tea has much less caffeine than coffee.
And has the FDA determined amphetamines to be a perfectly harmless stimulant when used in moderation? If used according to a doctor's prescription it is isn't it?

So do various types of amphetamines, or even Pseudoephedrine, which is a common ingredient found in various cough syrups. Both of these are stimulants. Coffee isn't the only option.


I don't argue that point. It is a chemical, a drug. It has an affect on the mind, an affect that keeps the mind more alert as you have just pointed out. Just as coffee is a stimulant that keeps people awake and alert, an anti-depressant has the opposite effect on the mind for those who need it. Not every one needs or can tolerate coffee. The same holds true for anti-depressants.

DHK, let's don't get ridiculous. You know exactly what I meant by putting chemicals into your body "FOR PSYSIOLOGICAL CHANGES". Obviously, if you use common sense, then I'm not talking about O2 which is required to breath or 2H20 which is used for multiple processes in the body. As for the rest of your debate, I don't know for sure what you are talking about, the bottom line is, anti-depressants have helped thousands of people and even with that, some people cannot tolerate them, just as some people are allergic to penicillin.

If an anti-depressant is called for and prescribed--and WORKS, then God's mercy has given our doctors and scientists the brains in order to provide medications which can help people in situations which can be extremely horrible. I know people who have had clinical depression and anti-depressants have been a "God-send".

It is AMAZING how people here cannot understand that mental problems are just as real and their causes often physiological imbalances.

This has been such a ridiculous thread and it reminds me of the witch hunts of Salem. It is certainly easy for people who have never had clinical depression or other effects to be judgemental.

The bottom line is that God has given us the brains to develop medications--all of which have some sort of side effects--so, it is up to the patient and the doctor to determine what is best for the patient. Without medication I would be dead now. I thank the Lord for those scientists who worked on those medications in order that I might live a normal life.

I have seen people who could not even function and believe me there is NOTHING worse than clinical depression and yes, Jesus can cure even that, but sometimes He chooses not to. Many people have died who are in these groups who won't see a doctor. Jesus gave us those doctors to help us and although he can heal anything, we brought sin upon ourselves and our human bodies will have problems and that includes mental problems.

The brain is the most complex machine in the galaxy, so let's get it through those thick brains that they can break just like your heart or liver can break.

Are medications abused? Yes, and so will every other discovery known to man. But, in general, they have been a gift from God to help man and woman live a more normal life.

 

[Brother Bob]

Phillip;
That is well said and from the heart.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

So, if the brain hardware is broke, wouldn't it be best to take it to the manufacturer, rather than man who did not create it, nor can know all about it? After all, you would not want to take your car to a mechanic who did not know all about your car, now would you?

And I know some will say, 'We have brain surgeons who know quite a lot about the brain.' Yes, we do. And even though they know a lot about the brain, they do not know everything.

I don't understand your logic. You've said that you've had a number of physical problems. I'm sorry to hear that. But did you ever have an operation, ever take any medication, evr stay in the hospital? Why didn't you just let God handle it instead? You're not a Christian Scientist are you? You certainly sound like one.

 

[Phillip]

Phillip;
That is well said and from the heart.

Thank you very much Brother Bob. May God bless you and those you love.

 

[lgpruitt]

Well said Phillip! :thumbs:

DHK, let's don't get ridiculous. You know exactly what I meant by putting chemicals into your body "FOR PSYSIOLOGICAL CHANGES". Obviously, if you use common sense, then I'm not talking about O2 which is required to breath or 2H20 which is used for multiple processes in the body. As for the rest of your debate, I don't know for sure what you are talking about, the bottom line is, anti-depressants have helped thousands of people and even with that, some people cannot tolerate them, just as some people are allergic to penicillin.

If an anti-depressant is called for and prescribed--and WORKS, then God's mercy has given our doctors and scientists the brains in order to provide medications which can help people in situations which can be extremely horrible. I know people who have had clinical depression and anti-depressants have been a "God-send".

It is AMAZING how people here cannot understand that mental problems are just as real and their causes often physiological imbalances.

This has been such a ridiculous thread and it reminds me of the witch hunts of Salem. It is certainly easy for people who have never had clinical depression or other effects to be judgemental.

The bottom line is that God has given us the brains to develop medications--all of which have some sort of side effects--so, it is up to the patient and the doctor to determine what is best for the patient. Without medication I would be dead now. I thank the Lord for those scientists who worked on those medications in order that I might live a normal life.

I have seen people who could not even function and believe me there is NOTHING worse than clinical depression and yes, Jesus can cure even that, but sometimes He chooses not to. Many people have died who are in these groups who won't see a doctor. Jesus gave us those doctors to help us and although he can heal anything, we brought sin upon ourselves and our human bodies will have problems and that includes mental problems.

The brain is the most complex machine in the galaxy, so let's get it through those thick brains that they can break just like your heart or liver can break.

Are medications abused? Yes, and so will every other discovery known to man. But, in general, they have been a gift from God to help man and woman live a more normal life.

 

[Phillip]

I don't understand your logic. You've said that you've had a number of physical problems. I'm sorry to hear that. But did you ever have an operation, ever take any medication, evr stay in the hospital? Why didn't you just let God handle it instead? You're not a Christian Scientist are you? You certainly sound like one.

This is really a fascinating response.

I'm not debating here, just discussing something that just hit me between the eyes.

Something just hit me when reading standingfirminChrist's response.

How much faith do we REALLY have? We as Christians can move mountains according to the Holy Scriptures.

How many Christians who just had the water-pump go out and pump their radiator dry. . . simply have enough faith to pray that God will fix it without taking it to the auto shop?

I'm talking about an obvious break that we as humans would not expect to be fixed without replacing the bad item or other physical and required repair.

It seems as though we only pray and expect results from things that can change when there is a possibility of a positive outcome without an OBVIOUS miracle.

How many of us have true enough faith to pray over their cars engine with a blown head-gasket and have the faith to believe that God will fix it without taking it to a garage?

If faith the size of a mustard seed can move a mountain--I for one, am certainly lacking in that type of faith. Is this a question we should be asking?

 

[DHK]

Philip,
I agree, and have been agreeing with almost everything you say.
Throughout this thread I have taken the stance that anti-depressants can be used for some patients who do have physiological problems.

The reason that I have used caffeine as an example (maybe a poor one) is that there are some on this board that claim that anti-depressants are "cures" only for the "mind," that which God alone has the cure for. In other words they should not be used because it is a spiritual problem.
If that is true, it must be true about caffeine as well. Though the former is a anti-depressant, and caffeine a stimulant, they both affect the same thing--the mind. Logically then they must both be banned substances because they affect the mind. This is not what I agree with. I am trying to show the ridiculousness of the logic of those who believe that anti-depressants (because they affect the mind) are a pure substitute for that which has a spiritual answer to at all times. It doesn't always have a spiritual answer. It is sometimes physical, as you say it is. And coffee affects us physically as well, as we all know. It is not a spiritual problem.

 

[Phillip]

Philip,
I agree, and have been agreeing with almost everything you say.
Throughout this thread I have taken the stance that anti-depressants can be used for some patients who do have physiological problems.

The reason that I have used caffeine as an example (maybe a poor one) is that there are some on this board that claim that anti-depressants are "cures" only for the "mind," that which God alone has the cure for. In other words they should not be used because it is a spiritual problem.
If that is true, it must be true about caffeine as well. Though the former is a anti-depressant, and caffeine a stimulant, they both affect the same thing--the mind. Logically then they must both be banned substances because they affect the mind. This is not what I agree with. I am trying to show the ridiculousness of the logic of those who believe that anti-depressants (because they affect the mind) are a pure substitute for that which has a spiritual answer to at all times. It doesn't always have a spiritual answer. It is sometimes physical, as you say it is. And coffee affects us physically as well, as we all know. It is not a spiritual problem.

DHK, I owe you an appology. I used your statement to take off on my discussion. I was wrong to make it sound like I was debating with what you were saying and yes I agree that there are often spiritual reasons that need to be delved into without just "blind" use of a drug.

The ideal situation is to find a doctor who is also a Christian and understnds both the spiritual and physical sides of the human being. This is not often easy to do.

Sorry again, didn't mean to sound if I was targetting you.............

 

[lgpruitt]

Bingo! Finding a Christian doctor that will work with you and throughout this entire situation is part of the key.

The ideal situation is to find a doctor who is also a Christian and understnds both the spiritual and physical sides of the human being. This is not often easy to do.

Sorry again, didn't mean to sound if I was targetting you.............

 

[standingfirminChrist]

CHEMICAL IMBALANCES AND GENETIC INHERITANCE: FACT OR FICTION

Most people resort to psychiatric medications because they believe in the popular notion of biochemical imbalances (or simply "chemical imbalances") in the brain. Many therapists and psychiatrist now view most (if not all) disorders and diseases of the DSM as biological or genetic in nature, claiming chemical imbalances or genetic inheritance as the culprit. Brace yourself, because research reveals a very different story.

Contrary to popular belief, chemical imbalances do not cause mental disorders like depression, anxiety and attention deficit disorder. The media bombard us with messages that adrenaline, hormonal and serotonin imbalances and deficiencies cause our mental-emotional-behavioral problems. However, research has either not confirmed this claim or retracted earlier proof as inconclusive. Psychiatrist and Harvard instructor Joseph Glenmullen tells us,

"In every instance where such an imbalance was thought to have been found, it was later proven false... a serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found."

Psychiatrist Peter R. Breggin, known as the ethical voice of psychiatry, and his associate David Cohen note,

"In the field of mental health, not a single physical explanation has been confirmed for any of the hundreds of psychiatric 'disorders' listed in the DSM-IV."

Not only has research never proven disorders and diseases on a mental level, as we have already seen, but it has also never proven them on a physical (biochemical) level. In fact,

"All the talk about biochemical imbalances is pure guesswork... No biochemical imbalances have ever been documented with certainty in association with any psychiatric diagnosis"

Psychology Debunked: Revealing The Overcoming Life by Lisa & Ryan Bazler pp. 103-104

 

[Ed Edwards]

Again, we believe more in the personal testimonites of people on
the Baptist Board (BB) than we do on professional
'agin'ers

AGIN'ERS - those people who are against something

 

[Ed Edwards]

from page 1:

I would love to say an attitude fix would solve all the problems but the truth is Depression and Anxiety is sometimes caused by a Chemical Imbalance in the brain and the right medication is a life saver. Keep talking with your Doctor and let him/her know how you are feeling so it can monitored. If one doesn't work then there are other medications.

God gave man knowledge and it is up to us, with guidance, to use it right.

Use the medications correctly and use your pastor, friends and if necessary a couselor to help you through this time.

Diet and Exercise are they key, both work in combination, someday you may not need the medications. For now use both if it helps. Again keep talking with your Doctor.

No shame in becoming healthy.

You are in my prayers raying:

Amen, Sister Mishelly -- Thank you for your personal testimony.