Virus and Vaccine Experts and "Experts"

[Reformed1689]

There is a FDA approved vaccine which has been proven effective and statistically safe.

Statistically safe for short-term, we do not know long-term

 

[Reformed1689]

Calling my argument a straw man is purely deceptive. It is no straw man.
An employer requiring a vaccine is coercion. It is using the force of job termination to force a person to have a medical procedure. It's allowing economic extortion to be used to attain an end result.
As I asked you earlier, is it likewise OK to require sterilization? Why not? Births in family interrupt fluid operations in the company. The problem is that you have a vax that works so poorly you are in fear and want to force others to get the vax to help protect you. You know the vax is failing. You know that with each variant you have a far greater chance of becoming critically ill. You are trying to force me to put myself in the same sinking boat with you because of your fear. I am not scared of Covid. All you fearful people need to just leave us alone. You took your vax. You should be good. Quit worrying about us. I believe in the slippery slope. Seen it happen too many times. Seen it happen here with the vax. Freedom is being lost. Fear is turning former Patriots into Communist tools.

As someone said, QUIT LIVING LIKE IT IS MARCH 2020 AND WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE VIRUS.

 

[JonC]

Calling my argument a straw man is purely deceptive. It is no straw man.
An employer requiring a vaccine is coercion. It is using the force of job termination to force a person to have a medical procedure. It's allowing economic extortion to be used to attain an end result.
As I asked you earlier, is it likewise OK to require sterilization? Why not? Births in family interrupt fluid operations in the company. The problem is that you have a vax that works so poorly you are in fear and want to force others to get the vax to help protect you. You know the vax is failing. You know that with each variant you have a far greater chance of becoming critically ill. You are trying to force me to put myself in the same sinking boat with you because of your fear. I am not scared of Covid. All you fearful people need to just leave us alone. You took your vax. You should be good. Quit worrying about us. I believe in the slippery slope. Seen it happen too many times. Seen it happen here with the vax. Freedom is being lost. Fear is turning former Patriots into Communist tools.

I am not saying you are afraid of covid. People make decisions based on their health, not really out of fear.

I am saying the argument that employers are making health decisions for employees is a strawman argument. It is dishonest to the facts of the situation. Employers are making decisions to mitigate risks of covid - but each employee to make their own decisions regarding their health.

 

[JonC]

under Jon’s personal philosophy and objecting to sterilization or even not allowing blacks to work at your company and interfering with those as a condition for employment are liberal, socialistic attempts at controlling the freedom of businesses.

Fircing employees to get dangerous vaccines with unknown long term effects is much like those and those employers will be liable for the damage to their employees from these vaccines

No. This is a false statement.

I am saying that it is dishonest to say employers are making health decisions for employees. This is obvious as many are declining the vaccination.

The vaccine has been proven safe (compared with rejecting the vaccine) and effective against covid. It has been proven to reduce deaths, hospitalizations, and infection. Covid has been proven a work place hazard.

I understand you reject science in favor of pseudoscience and conspiracy (you even denied genome sequencing existed). That is fine.

Flat earthers have their own "experts", as fo you. But stop pretending people are entitled to a particular employment or that employers are making health decisions for employees. That is just silly.

 

[Revmitchell]

No. This is a false statement.

I am saying that it is dishonest to say employers are making health decisions for employees. This is obvious as many are declining the vaccination.

The vaccine has been proven safe (compared with rejecting the vaccine) and effective against covid. It has been proven to reduce deaths, hospitalizations, and infection. Covid has been proven a work place hazard.

I understand you reject science in favor of pseudoscience and conspiracy (you even denied genome sequencing existed). That is fine.

Flat earthers have their own "experts", as fo you. But stop pretending people are entitled to a particular employment or that employers are making health decisions for employees. That is just silly.

see this is what you do. You say something then when you get called out for it you deny it. My post stands as true. You went into a whole diatribe about how I’m liberal and socialist because you claim I want to infringe on business property rights. Well if you are going to say that being against employer vaccine mandates are anti capitalist then so is everything else that would interfere with what a business owner wants. To include the business owner choosing not to do business with minorities. Can’t have both ways. Facts are facts

 

[Reynolds]

I am not saying you are afraid of covid. People make decisions based on their health, not really out of fear.

I am saying the argument that employers are making health decisions for employees is a strawman argument. It is dishonest to the facts of the situation. Employers are making decisions to mitigate risks of covid - but each employee to make their own decisions regarding their health.

That's a load of crap and you know it.

 

[Reynolds]

see this is what you do. You say something then when you get called out for it you deny it. My post stands as true. You went into a whole diatribe about how I’m liberal and socialist because you claim I want to infringe on business property rights. Well if you are going to say that being against employer vaccine mandates are anti capitalist then so is everything else that would interfere with what a business owner wants. To include the business owner choosing not to do business with minorities. Can’t have both ways. Facts are facts

I believe JonC has fallen for the new lie of the left. They now believe if you repeat misinformation long enough, often enough, and loud enough; it becomes true.
JonC is playing word games. Since the employer is not strapping the employee at gunpoint into a restraint chair and jabbing them, I guess JonC is correct in his stance that the employer is not forcing the vax. If he wants to get that far into the word game weeds, I guess there is no reasoning with him.

 

[Reformed1689]

Employers are making decisions to mitigate risks of covid - but each employee to make their own decisions regarding their health.

Which is dumb, the risks are already minimal.

 

[Revmitchell]

I believe JonC has fallen for the new lie of the left. They now believe if you repeat misinformation long enough, often enough, and loud enough; it becomes true.
JonC is playing word games. Since the employer is not strapping the employee at gunpoint into a restraint chair and jabbing them, I guess JonC is correct in his stance that the employer is not forcing the vax. If he wants to get that far into the word game weeds, I guess there is no reasoning with him.

well he called me a liberal and a socialist said I want to force employers to not have vaccine mandates. If that is an example of a liberal or socialist then do would it be for anyone who wanted to force any employer to do anything including not hiring minorities. His intentionally inflammatory accusation is biting him in the backside do he had to respond with obfuscation. Normal

 

[JonC]

see this is what you do. You say something then when you get called out for it you deny it. My post stands as true. You went into a whole diatribe about how I’m liberal and socialist because you claim I want to infringe on business property rights. Well if you are going to say that being against employer vaccine mandates are anti capitalist then so is everything else that would interfere with what a business owner wants. To include the business owner choosing not to do business with minorities. Can’t have both ways. Facts are facts

You are confused.

Government laws that you speak of are, per your definition, anti-capitalism. I suppose your argument that regulations and laws....like not allowing chemical companies to dump in the river....fall into this category. And I agree.

That is why I said (and you ignored) "within the confines of the law". The government has many regulations and laws that are anti-capitalism.

I already mentioned anti-discrimination laws.

That does not mean you are right to ditch capitalism.

Just because you see places where the government is not useless capitalistic does not justify your embrace for socialistic ideologies.

 

[JonC]

I believe JonC has fallen for the new lie of the left. They now believe if you repeat misinformation long enough, often enough, and loud enough; it becomes true.
JonC is playing word games. Since the employer is not strapping the employee at gunpoint into a restraint chair and jabbing them, I guess JonC is correct in his stance that the employer is not forcing the vax. If he wants to get that far into the word game weeds, I guess there is no reasoning with him.

No, not at all.

What believe is a man should have tge right to operate his business and make conditions if employment within the confines of the law. I have said this repeatedly and you always come back with the silly idea this freedom is liberal and from the DNC.

These are very basic freedoms you are suggesting Americans give up. What's next? Are you going to insist churches accept abortion or gay pastors?

You and @Revmitchell have adopted the liberal Democrat position - you are just applying it specifically to denying men the rights to operate private businesses.

 

[JonC]

Look.... @Reynolds and @Revmitchell

If I thought vacvines were the silliest things since hand the conspiracy sites quoted here it wouldn't matter. If I thought vaccines did not work and covid was fake....it wouldn't matter.

I am not the business owner. I have no right to tell them to vaccinate or not yo vaccinated. I have no right to demand they use masks or refrain from masks.

Business owners should have the freedom to decide conditions of employment within the confines of the law. Period.

You two can keep insisting private ownership insofar as businesses is evil, that it should be illegal ....but that is socialism.

If you do not like what a company dies then don't work for them. Don't support them. That is your right. But you two have NO right to control another man's property.

There is no difference between you two and the liberal democrats preaching "democratic sociaism" except you confines your socialism to business owners.

 

[Reynolds]

Yep

well he called me a liberal and a socialist said I want to force employers to not have vaccine mandates. If that is an example of a liberal or socialist then do would it be for anyone who wanted to force any employer to do anything including not hiring minorities. His intentionally inflammatory accusation is biting him in the backside do he had to respond with obfuscation. Normal

Yep.

 

[Reynolds]

No, not at all.

What believe is a man should have tge right to operate his business and make conditions if employment within the confines of the law. I have said this repeatedly and you always come back with the silly idea this freedom is liberal and from the DNC.

These are very basic freedoms you are suggesting Americans give up. What's next? Are you going to insist churches accept abortion or gay pastors?

You and @Revmitchell have adopted the liberal Democrat position - you are just applying it specifically to denying men the rights to operate private businesses.

You are living on fantasy Island.

 

[JonC]

You are living on fantasy Island.

Perhaps.....but if you guys get your way I'll be living on Socialism Island.

 

[JonC]

Yep

Yep.

@Revmitchell 's post was not accurate. I think you know that just as much as he does.

I believe the fed government overstepped with private businesses. I've said this repeatedly.

There are laws that run contrary to capitalism. I think we all know this. We saw laissez faire Capitalism with the "Great Hunger". This is not what I am advocating.

I am advocating people redist the socialistic ideologies that you and @Revmitchell are pushing.

I have also said business owners should have the right to operate their business within the confines of the law. You and the "Reverend" know that.

I disagree with a lot of laws (like seat belt laws).

But unlike you guys I am not adopting "democratic socialisic" ideologies.

 

[Wingman68]

No. This is a false statement.

I am saying that it is dishonest to say employers are making health decisions for employees. This is obvious as many are declining the vaccination.

The vaccine has been proven safe (compared with rejecting the vaccine) and effective against covid. It has been proven to reduce deaths, hospitalizations, and infection. Covid has been proven a work place hazard.

I understand you reject science in favor of pseudoscience and conspiracy (you even denied genome sequencing existed). That is fine.

Flat earthers have their own "experts", as fo you. But stop pretending people are entitled to a particular employment or that employers are making health decisions for employees. That is just silly.

You need to stop with your accusatory rhetoric. Calling everyone who disagrees with you a socialist is just upping your game from calling them a democrat. You are inciting. The left always accuses the very thing they themselves are guilty of, & it certainly rings true with you. Here with the flat earthers verbiage again, why don’t you just cut to the chase and throw out knuckle draggers? RevM was 100% correct.


Oh, you're a woke-poke employer eh?

You think hiding behind OSHA -- or the threat to issue a mandate by the government -- in some way prevents you from being liable for injuries and/or deaths related to the vaccines?

Uh, how would you like to defend that position in court given all of the following are true:

• The PREP act has no provision giving you legal immunity and cannot be amended by executive order as it is law, so you would need both houses of Congress to pass such a thing -- and they have not.
  
  
• The producing firms and health care providers are immune from damages under that same PREP Act. Therefore under the general principle of joint and several liability guess who gets all of it: You do.
  
• You could have tried to claim that the Federal Government refused liability (and got away with it) for direct employees, or even that "there's no such thing as vaccine injury from these jabs" and claimed that the Federal Government itself said this is so..... except, oops, that just went up in a puff of smoke.

The Federal Employees' Compensation Act (FECA) covers injuries that occur in the performance of duty. The FECA does not generally authorize provision of preventive measures such as vaccines and inoculations, and in general, preventive treatment is a responsibility of the employing agency under the provisions of 5 U.S.C. 7901. However, care can be authorized by OWCP for complications of preventive measures which are provided or sponsored by the agency, such as adverse reaction to prophylactic immunization. See PM 3-0400.7(a).

Further, deleterious effects of medical services furnished by the employing establishment are generally considered to fall within the performance of duty. These services include preventive programs relating to health. See PM 2-0804.19.

However, this executive order now makes COVID-19 vaccination a requirement of most Federal employment. As such, employees impacted by this mandate who receive required COVID-19 vaccinations on or after the date of the executive order may be afforded coverage under the FECA for any adverse reactions to the vaccine itself, and for any injuries sustained while obtaining the vaccination.

Oops.

If you mandate, as a private employer, "vaccination" against Covid-19 any and all adverse events as a result of said jabs are now chargeable to you, as the Federal Government itself has deemed that "mandated" vaccinations are indeed injuries that occurred while performing the job in question, irrespective of where the jab took place, and that said adverse events, up to and including death do in fact occur.

Got that employers and HR Departments? Said "adverse events" are expected.

Oh by the way your insurance firm has likely inserted a "pandemic exemption" into your liability coverage. That's shown up in a whole lot of those policies over the last year or so, and it's odds-on that's the case for you as well.

Incidentally there is plenty of evidence that these jabs will be eventually found to be responsible for a whole host of serious problems, and those do not end within a couple of weeks of the jab itself. Indeed, the evidence is mounting rapidly (see the all-cause "excess death" rates for various age groups, particularly cardiac and circulatory related, among young people now showing up in places like Scotland and England for examples) that there is a causal link between both strokes and heart attacks.

I remind you that the FDA and pharmaceutical industry claimed, not all that long ago, that no such link existed for Vioxx. It was only after about 60,000 Americans had heart attacks and died, and several hundred thousand had non-fatal heart problems caused by it, that it was withdrawn from the market -- five years later.

Moderna and Pfizer may be immune from lawsuit but you are not, and further, the precedent by the Federal Government itself now exists based on their own public statement that if an employee gets screwed by the jab you demanded they take you're on the hook whether that injury is evident five minutes afterward or five years later.

If OAS or ADE shows up as is being indicated, but not yet proved by the data out of both Scotland and Britain then you're really in trouble as every single vaccinated person who gets Covid-19 and dies or is permanently harmed in your organization, and that will be a very sizeable percentage of the whole, is going to result in a huge lawsuit that you will lose.

 

[Reynolds]

Perhaps.....but if you guys get your way I'll be living on Socialism Island.

J.C. you are straight up trolling.
Anyone requiring a medical procedure is removing, not granting, freedom.

 

[Reynolds]

@Revmitchell 's post was not accurate. I think you know that just as much as he does.

I believe the fed government overstepped with private businesses. I've said this repeatedly.

There are laws that run contrary to capitalism. I think we all know this. We saw laissez faire Capitalism with the "Great Hunger". This is not what I am advocating.

I am advocating people redist the socialistic ideologies that you and @Revmitchell are pushing.

I have also said business owners should have the right to operate their business within the confines of the law. You and the "Reverend" know that.

I disagree with a lot of laws (like seat belt laws).

But unlike you guys I am not adopting "democratic socialisic" ideologies.

You are pushing an illogical position. You are trying to say that taking freedom from the many and giving it to a few is Freedom. You are backward on this.

 

[Reformed1689]

Perhaps.....but if you guys get your way I'll be living on Socialism Island.

Again, I don't think Jon knows what socialism actually is.