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Volition

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by revmwc, Apr 25, 2017.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did God seek Abraham, or did Abraham seek God in order to get saved?
     
    #101 Yeshua1, Apr 29, 2017
  2. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 2:8 & 9 is very clear For by Grace are we save...it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. Salvation is the gift not Faith "For by Grace are we saved through faith;" notice the break here with the semi colon, and identify the verb that is giving action, we are saved so salvation is the subject, how are we saved by faith, not of yourselves: it is the gift, what is the gift the subject of the sentence being saved is the gift not Faith, Faith is the action which brings salvation which brings the gift to the one who receives it. It is very clear Salvation is the Gift of God because of one believing through faith. Then Regeneration occurs the moment faith is placed in the Savior.
     
    #102 revmwc, Apr 29, 2017
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Nothing. That is the whole point. There is no good work we can do that would earn our regeneration, our justification, our salvation. It is NOT OF WORKS.

    All of God. None of me.
     
    #103 TCassidy, Apr 29, 2017
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Uh, did you forget what you asked? You didn't ask about faith. You asked: "Just quote us where it says what the characteristics of a spiritually dead person is, particularly in the realm of faith."

    So I gave you the two conclusive passages that tell us what the characteristics of a spiritually dead person is, in the realm of faith.
     
    #104 TCassidy, Apr 29, 2017
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Why must you make childish insults instead of discussing the issue?

    There is nothing "bogus" about his claims or yours. Both are sincerely held. Shame on your for denigrating the faith of a brother in Christ.
     
    #105 TCassidy, Apr 29, 2017
  6. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    By grace you are saved, through faith, that is not of yourself, it is a gift from God.

    Grace is not from you.
    Salvation is not from you.
    Faith is not from you.

    Three strikes in regard to your own effort. Why did God make it not about you? Answer: So you couldn't go around boasting about your efforts.

    Rev, you are adding works to salvation...even if you are blind to seeing how you're making that argument.
     
    #106 MennoSota, Apr 29, 2017
  7. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Shame on you guys for accusing us of a works based salvation!
     
    #107 JonShaff, Apr 29, 2017
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Shame on you for making a false statement.
     
    #108 TCassidy, Apr 29, 2017
  9. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
     
    #109 JonShaff, Apr 29, 2017
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Amen! True faith is a gracious gift from God which He produces in the heart of all those He regenerates and is the only means by which a person can appropriate true righteousness.
     
    #110 TCassidy, Apr 29, 2017
  11. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Identify a passage, other than Eph. 2:8, that says God produces faith in the heart of those he regenerates.
     
    #111 JonShaff, Apr 29, 2017
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So are you saying you don't believe Ephesians 2:8? Or that God saying something once is not enough?

    How about John 6 (for the 5th time)?
     
    #112 TCassidy, Apr 29, 2017
  13. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Identify a God other than YHWH who can give life to a dead spirit.

    Do you recognize how you are desperately trying to deny God's word? I recognize how you are moving the goalposts to avoid God's word.
     
    #113 MennoSota, Apr 29, 2017
  14. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    This is irrelevant to my question
     
    #114 JonShaff, Apr 29, 2017
  15. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    No more irrelevant than your question.
     
    #115 MennoSota, Apr 29, 2017
  16. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I believe Eph. 2:8 speaks of Eternal life/Being made Alive is the Gift Spoken of in Eph. 2:8, not faith. What verses in John 6 speak of faith being gifted to those who are regenerated. Just a few verses in John 6 would suffice. Thanks!
     
    #116 JonShaff, Apr 29, 2017
  17. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I'd like to know you outside of the internet. I have a feeling you wouldn't be so difficult in face to face conversations.
     
    #117 JonShaff, Apr 29, 2017
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No, it's not. It is an excellent illustration of what you are doing to avoid the actual discussion.
     
    #118 TCassidy, Apr 29, 2017
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. One is "made alive" - regenerated - before faith. Nice to see we are making progress.

    Posted for the 4th time:

    John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
    42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
    43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
     
    #119 TCassidy, Apr 29, 2017
  20. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Except that Faith is the conduit in which God uses to bring Regeneration to a Soul. Faith, THEN regeneration..."Through FAITH"

    Well, to use a "Calvinist's" point of view...the "ALL" that the Lord Speaks of Would refer to the Sheep of the House of Israel. Jesus is speaking of the fact that God the Father is TRANSFERRING His sheep to His Son...and Jesus Declares that by saying, ALL authority has been Given unto me. So essentially, Jesus Is reassuring God's people that they are safe in His arms just as they Were safe in God the Father's Arms. This isn't some sort of "pre-creation election"/Irresistible Grace statement, This is In-time, here and now...all that the Father gives to me... Those of the House of Israel. He has yet to Make any statement about another fold of sheep ;)

    I don't see how this has to do with Regeneration and faith that ensues.
     
    #120 JonShaff, Apr 29, 2017
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