• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Volition

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

revmwc

Well-Known Member
SovereignGrace said:
First off, God is the One who was propitiated and not man, as He was the One who was offended. Secondly, if God's wrath has been appeased, then everyone without exception is saved, as there is no wrath from God that needs to be meted out.



They were condemned already, Brother. Many ppl died and never heard the gospel to reject it, yet they died condemned in their sins.
Click to expand...

God wrath is appeased, yet until one Believes and calls as scripture requires they cannot be saved. Until they accept the free gift of salvation they cannot reap the effects of the gift. John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. Here the gift was salvation called living water, it was given freely to those who had faith. We see she believed and went into the city and immediately became a witness, 29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. What is the gift of god? salvation of Course so Ephesians 2:8&9 the gift is salvation not Faith otherwise Paul's statement would contradict each other. Salvation comes because of Faith and is given to All who call upon the Lord.

God was appeased by the Blood of the Lamb that Jesus Christ who blood covers sin, sin has been paid for and Salvation is the gift that must be accepted by all who are condemned.
They are condemned already because of?
John 3:18 Jesus said because they had not believed on the Son. Salvation comes when Faith occurs, New Life comes from Faith that is what regeneration occurs when Faith is placed in the Savior who Paid for the sin of all mankind. 1 John 2:2 is clear God was appeased by the Sacrificial blood of the Son who paid the price for all sin, past, present and future. Mankind is condemned already because they are totally depraved and thus Spiritually dead, separated from Spiritual things. With out knowledge of Spiritual matters. But to believe on the Lord Jesus only takes hearing the word and believing then calling upon the Lord in belief, that is how man is regenerated through faith not before faith. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ the Lord as Romans 6:23 states and Ephesians 2:8 states. Salvation is the Gift of God that comes through Faith.
 
R

revmwc

Well-Known Member
SovereignGrace said:
Context, Brother, context.

You seem to be stuck on the saying 'all means all, and that's all that all means'. Yet, all does not mean everyone who ever existed, but all within a subset.
Click to expand...
It applies to that verse does mean other thins like all of a kind or all of a different kind of Course it does, but in John 12:32 it means ALL just as translated. You seem to want to form it to your belief rather than to the context. Since you never Exegete the passage and instead find fault with others exegesis and context. However exegesis fails when ones does it with their belief pattern ingrained into it. Their exegesis is flawed because of already having formed your opinion on doctrinal ideas. From Mounce and Vines as well as others John 12:32 means exactly that "ALL." Not all of the same kind or Everything of different kinds. Exegesis must be done with an open mind to be correct exegesis and be Hermetically correct. Without preordained opinions open mindly and with bias. I have shown where others interpret the ALL to mean ALL mankind, you just say false exegesis or the interpretation is incorrect without offering your own. Very easy to say it wrong and not offer your own, but that is how it goes.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
revmwc said:
It applies to that verse does mean other thins like all of a kind or all of a different kind of Course it does, but in John 12:32 it means ALL just as translated. You seem to want to form it to your belief rather than to the context. Since you never Exegete the passage and instead find fault with others exegesis and context. However exegesis fails when ones does it with their belief pattern ingrained into it. Their exegesis is flawed because of already having formed your opinion on doctrinal ideas. From Mounce and Vines as well as others John 12:32 means exactly that "ALL." Not all of the same kind or Everything of different kinds. Exegesis must be done with an open mind to be correct exegesis and be Hermetically correct. Without preordained opinions open mindly and with bias. I have shown where others interpret the ALL to mean ALL mankind, you just say false exegesis or the interpretation is incorrect without offering your own. Very easy to say it wrong and not offer your own, but that is how it goes.
Click to expand...

Did God draw those who died never hearing the gospel?
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
revmwc said:
It applies to that verse does mean other thins like all of a kind or all of a different kind of Course it does, but in John 12:32 it means ALL just as translated. You seem to want to form it to your belief rather than to the context. Since you never Exegete the passage and instead find fault with others exegesis and context. However exegesis fails when ones does it with their belief pattern ingrained into it. Their exegesis is flawed because of already having formed your opinion on doctrinal ideas. From Mounce and Vines as well as others John 12:32 means exactly that "ALL." Not all of the same kind or Everything of different kinds. Exegesis must be done with an open mind to be correct exegesis and be Hermetically correct. Without preordained opinions open mindly and with bias. I have shown where others interpret the ALL to mean ALL mankind, you just say false exegesis or the interpretation is incorrect without offering your own. Very easy to say it wrong and not offer your own, but that is how it goes.
Click to expand...
Never exegete? C'mon Brother. You eisegesis and I exegete.
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
SovereignGrace said:
I know nothing about Scofield other than his dispensationalism. The book had a copyright of 1967.
Click to expand...
Ah! Okay. My copy of the New Scofield Reference Bible is copyrighted 1967. But it is not the work of Scofield. His original notes were edited by Schuyler English, Frank Gaebelein, William Culbertson, Charles Feinberg, Allan MacRae, Clarence Mason, Jr., Alva J. McClain, Wilbur Smith, and John Walvoord.

The NSRB could have had a much wider circulation except for the fact they changed many of the words in the KJV text and even some strong non- and anti- KJVO people objected to it. The President of Central Seminary said "the word changes belonged in the margin, not in the text. Have some respect for the work of the King James translators."

Doc never changed the wording of the KJV when preaching or teaching. If he took exception to the KJV reading he would quote the same passage from the ASV and say, "The ASV puts it this way." But he never criticized the KJV reading.

And many, if not most, of his generation felt the same way which may account for the lack of sales of the NSRB.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
TCassidy said:
Ah! Okay. My copy of the New Scofield Reference Bible is copyrighted 1967. But it is not the work of Scofield. His original notes were edited by Schuyler English, Frank Gaebelein, William Culbertson, Charles Feinberg, Allan MacRae, Clarence Mason, Jr., Alva J. McClain, Wilbur Smith, and John Walvoord.

The NSRB could have had a much wider circulation except for the fact they changed many of the words in the KJV text and even some strong non- and anti- KJVO people objected to it. The President of Central Seminary said "the word changes belonged in the margin, not in the text. Have some respect for the work of the King James translators."

Doc never changed the wording of the KJV when preaching or teaching. If he took exception to the KJV reading he would quote the same passage from the ASV and say, "The ASV puts it this way." But he never criticized the KJV reading.

And many, if not most, of his generation felt the same way which may account for the lack of sales of the NSRB.
Click to expand...
Scofield said in 'Prophecy Made Plain', that 800 MILLION had not heard the gospel. I was thinking the book was written in 1967, as that was the book's copyright date.
 
Last edited:
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yeshua1 said:
Not even those those who deny the Gospel?
Click to expand...
revwmc said that God's wrath was appeased. If it's appeased, then none will be meted out.

revmwc has God being mutable. His wrath is appeased only to do a complete 180 and pour it out on Judgment day. :(
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SovereignGrace said:
revwmc said that God's wrath was appeased. If it's appeased, then none will be meted out.

revmwc has God being mutable. His wrath is appeased only to do a complete 180 and pour it out on Judgment day. :(
Click to expand...
the wrath of God has been appeased/propiated for those whom the death of Jesus was intended by God to save!
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
TCassidy said:
That sounds better. :)
Click to expand...
I went back and rechecked. Scofield stated that 800,000,000 ppl had not heard the gospel. It was on pg 53 under the chapter 'The Church of God'.

How did Christ draw those of the 800 MILLION who died never hearing the gospel?

revmwc has a faulty concept of 'all means all and that's all that all means'.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
revmwc said:
God wrath is appeased, yet until one Believes and calls as scripture requires they cannot be saved. Until they accept the free gift of salvation they cannot reap the effects of the gift. John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. Here the gift was salvation called living water, it was given freely to those who had faith. We see she believed and went into the city and immediately became a witness, 29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. What is the gift of god? salvation of Course so Ephesians 2:8&9 the gift is salvation not Faith otherwise Paul's statement would contradict each other. Salvation comes because of Faith and is given to All who call upon the Lord.

God was appeased by the Blood of the Lamb that Jesus Christ who blood covers sin, sin has been paid for and Salvation is the gift that must be accepted by all who are condemned.
They are condemned already because of?
John 3:18 Jesus said because they had not believed on the Son. Salvation comes when Faith occurs, New Life comes from Faith that is what regeneration occurs when Faith is placed in the Savior who Paid for the sin of all mankind. 1 John 2:2 is clear God was appeased by the Sacrificial blood of the Son who paid the price for all sin, past, present and future. Mankind is condemned already because they are totally depraved and thus Spiritually dead, separated from Spiritual things. With out knowledge of Spiritual matters. But to believe on the Lord Jesus only takes hearing the word and believing then calling upon the Lord in belief, that is how man is regenerated through faith not before faith. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ the Lord as Romans 6:23 states and Ephesians 2:8 states. Salvation is the Gift of God that comes through Faith.
Click to expand...
God's wrath has not been appeased for everyone.[John 3:36 & Ephesians 2:3]
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SovereignGrace said:
I went back and rechecked. Scofield stated that 800,000,000 ppl had not heard the gospel. It was on pg 53 under the chapter 'The Church of God'.

How did Christ draw those of the 800 MILLION who died never hearing the gospel?

revmwc has a faulty concept of 'all means all and that's all that all means'.
Click to expand...

@TCassidy

Will you please help me with Brother revmwc?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top