Voting Day (Again) in Georgia

[JonC]

Brino Kemp is a RINO, BUT, so he is banning 67% of abortions. 67% ban is huge progress over the previous 0% ban.
And you are serious telling me that you don't Let the perfect become the enemy of the good?

I am saying that I will not support guaranteeing that 43% of abortions will remain legal.

The issue is not the perfect becoming the enemy of the good. The issue is trying to accomplish good with evil.

You support killing the unborn in Georgia up to the 6th week. You support killing the unborn in the US up to the 20th week.

I will not support killing children even if the outcome of my support would save some.

 

[Van]

There is no "facilating". The powers of this world will do evil. The political powers of this world do not need facilating to do evil.

You are, however, actively supporting abortion. You know this as evidenced by your posts (by your claim Christians should vote regardless of their convictions).

The reason I know that you realize you are pro-abortion in your support of policies to keep abortion by the fact you are more intelligent than your post above.

1) I did not say nor suggest the powers of this world need facilitating
2) You are actively charging me with your malfeasance
3) I did not say nor suggest Christians should vote regardless of their convictions. But I did suggest some convictions are wrong.

 

[Van]

[QUOTE="JonC, post: 2825786, member: 12639"

@Van is the same. He suggests not to vote to keep 98.9% of abortions legal in order to appeal to pro-choice Republicans and attract independents is liberal. That, of course, is nonsense (he is just tossing out anything to obscure facts).[/QUOTE]

1) Once again my view is misrepresented for the purpose of pride.

2) Here is my actual view, and note folks, it is a quote of Van:

Your argument is delusional, making the perfect the enemy of the good. It is "since I cannot save all the babies, I will not try to save some."​

 

[Van]

That is false. We work to save babies. And we save many.

The difference is I do not support keeping most abortions legal so that I can save some.

The reason is I do not believe God credits evil as good.

It is good that your support helps save some lives. But the compromise that you have chosen - sacrifice children to save children - is not good.

Once again a delusional defense of dereliction of duty. Jesus indicated if we are not affirmatively for Him, we are like lukewarm soup, which he would spit out. The choice is not save all or none, but save some or none. And folks, consider the claim, if you try to save some, you are pro-abortion, but if you try to save none, you are righteous. Fiddlesticks.

 

[JonC]

Once again a delusional defense of dereliction of duty. Jesus indicated if we are not affirmatively for Him, we are like lukewarm soup, which he would spit out. The choice is not save all or none, but save some or none. And folks, consider the claim, if you try to save some, you are pro-abortion, but if you try to save none, you are righteous. Fiddlesticks.

Then you should be very careful. First you have just equated a worldly political power with Christ. Second you have condemned all Christians prior to the establishment of Christianity as the religion of Rome. Third, you have implied that Jesus would approve of your pro-abirtion choices because it saves some.

To the site, consider:

My position is that we stand for Christ and work to prevent as many abortions as we can through the ministry of the church. Our decision to vote is a matter of conscious and we serve God and not nan.

@Van 's position is that we actively support 98.9% of US abortions in order to save the 1.1% we can through political means, so if we do not support abortion we cannot save some from abortion.

In the end @Van is by definition pro-abortion by action (he directlt supports killing the unborn ), although anti-abortion in principle (he supports abortion as a compromise to save some unborn).

 

[just-want-peace]

Then you should be very careful. First you have just equated a worldly political power with Christ. Second you have condemned all Christians prior to the establishment of Christianity as the religion of Rome. Third, you have implied that Jesus would approve of your pro-abirtion choices because it saves some.

To the site, consider:

My position is that we stand for Christ and work to prevent as many abortions as we can through the ministry of the church. Our decision to vote is a matter of conscious and we serve God and not nan.

@Van 's position is that we actively support 98.9% of US abortions in order to save the 1.1% we can through political means, so if we do not support abortion we cannot save some from abortion.

In the end @Van is by definition pro-abortion by action (he directlt supports killing the unborn ), although anti-abortion in principle (he supports abortion as a compromise to save some unborn).

WOW!!!! You are in low gear and burning the tires off your car!!! CHILL OUT JonC!

--prevent as many abortions as we can through the ministry of the church. So, saving a few lives thru the church is dandy, but un-Christian if saved thru politics ????

--position is that we actively support -- didn't see this anywhere-- 98.9% of US abortions in order to save the 1.1% we can through political means, so if we do not support abortion we cannot save some from abortion. This is, by your standards, YOUR position.

Jon, your fingers are outrunning your brain; slow down & "smell the roses". Your logic here is akin to your posts way back yonder when zealously defending the C shots!!

 

[JonC]

WOW!!!! You are in low gear and burning the tires off your car!!! CHILL OUT JonC!

--prevent as many abortions as we can through the ministry of the church. So, saving a few lives thru the church is dandy, but un-Christian if saved thru politics ????

--position is that we actively support -- didn't see this anywhere-- 98.9% of US abortions in order to save the 1.1% we can through political means, so if we do not support abortion we cannot save some from abortion. This is, by your standards, YOUR position.

Jon, your fingers are outrunning your brain; slow down & "smell the roses". Your logic here is akin to your posts way back yonder when zealously defending the C shots!!

???

That is not anything like I posted.

As far as defending the anti-abortion position zealously, I am guilty. I can't help but get agitated.

I am anti-abortion. I believe our nation's history of killing the unborn is one of the worst sins our country has committed.

So when members suggest opposing all abortion is "making the perfect the the enemy of the good" I have to disagree.

I have presented two arguments against @Van and @Reynolds .

1. Both members have suggested that an unwillingness to compromise regarding abortion makes "the perfect the the enemy of the good". But as Christians we ate to seek that which is perfect (anything less is not good....it may be better but not good).

Brian Kemp vowed to keep 43% of abortions legal in Georgia whike eliminating (or making people go out of state) for the 57% of abortions. His line is 6 weeks gestation period and under will remain legal.

The GOP has an agreed upon 20 week limit (which Graham is trying to lower to 14 weeks). Currently the GOP is trying to make 1.9% of abortions illegal by supporting a 20 week gestation period limit which would allow 98.9% of abortions.

If you support a party then you support that platform with your vote. So if you vote for Kemp you support keeping 43% of abortions legal in GA to prevent 57%.

My personal conviction is that I should take the "perfect" position of any abortion is too many.

2. My second point is that since after much prayer my conviction is not to vote that I should obey my conscience and allow others to obey theirs. @Van implied that not to vote for the Republican party is to vote against Christ regardless.

I believe Van is wrong.

 

[JonC]

WOW!!!! You are in low gear and burning the tires off your car!!! CHILL OUT JonC!

--prevent as many abortions as we can through the ministry of the church. So, saving a few lives thru the church is dandy, but un-Christian if saved thru politics ????

Re-reading your post I see a few more mistakes.

My argument was not against the GOP trying to make 1.1% of abortions illegal. I believe it is great that they want to save those children.

My argument is that a platform that supports abortion to the 20th week (98.9% of abortions in the US) to gain/ maintain votes is a platform that I cannot support.

@Van and @Reynolds brings up the point very well.

How many unborn babies would you support killing in order to save some? How many would you have to save to kill most?

It is an interesting question.

If a killer was going to shoot 100 children how many would he have to let go on order for you to support the killing?

If you did not help him kill those kids would you be responsible for all 100 dying instead of just 99?

My answer is we do the "perfect". I will not support abortion, even if that means some lives may be saved.

 

[Van]

Then you should be very careful. First you have just equated a worldly political power with Christ. Second you have condemned all Christians prior to the establishment of Christianity as the religion of Rome. Third, you have implied that Jesus would approve of your pro-abirtion choices because it saves some.

To the site, consider:

My position is that we stand for Christ and work to prevent as many abortions as we can through the ministry of the church. Our decision to vote is a matter of conscious and we serve God and not nan.

@Van 's position is that we actively support 98.9% of US abortions in order to save the 1.1% we can through political means, so if we do not support abortion we cannot save some from abortion.

In the end @Van is by definition pro-abortion by action (he directlt supports killing the unborn ), although anti-abortion in principle (he supports abortion as a compromise to save some unborn).

Folks, note how JonC is defending his bogus view by claiming I am doing this and that wrong thing. Argumentation by Fallacy.
Then he invents a bogus position and attributes it to me. Argumentation by misrepresentation.

But note he does not address or defend his bogus view, save none rather than save some.

 

[JonC]

Folks, note how JonC is defending his bogus view by claiming I am doing this and that wrong thing. Argumentation by Fallacy.
Then he invents a bogus position and attributes it to me. Argumentation by misrepresentation.

But note he does not address or defend his bogus view, save none rather than save some.

"Folks"? Who are you talking to?

You repeatedly said that by not supporting a party that acted to keep abortion legal to the 20th week (the GOP) in order to reduce the number of overall abortions I was letting the "perfect become the enemy of the good".

You repeatedly said that a Christian who prayerfully considered the issue and was convicted to abstain from voting should violate his conscience and vote Republican.

You are just having a tantrum because you don't want to come to terms that in practice you are pro-choice.

You are exactly like an anti-abortion Democrat. You believe one thing, support another, and deny your actions.

 

[JonC]

You re too intellectually dishonest to even waste time on.

You say that because you know you are pro-abortion in your support.

At a minimum you support committing to keep 43% of GA abortions legal because that is the GA Republican platform. The DNC platform is to keep all abortion legal.

You are pro-abortion because you believe the "perfect" position (here, standing against all abortion) is the enemy of the "good" (the compromise).

You support killing the unborn. There is no way around it. You just don't want people to recognize your stand against the "perfect".

 

[Van]

"Folks"? Who are you talking to?

You repeatedly said SNIP

.

Lets cut this short JonC. You are not quoting me, you are making up falsehoods and attributing them to me, then ridiculing the misrepresentations. Nuff said

 

[JonC]

Lets cut this short JonC. You are not quoting me, you are making up falsehoods and attributing them to me, then ridiculing the misrepresentations. Nuff said

I never claim to quote you.

I said you posted that not to vote is to vote (a stupid claim). I said you posted that we shouldn't make the "perfect" (oppose all abortion) the "enemy of the good" (supporting most abortions to reduce the total number).

You are pro-abbortion by definition through your support of the GOP policy to protect abortion up to the 20th week in order to gain political support in banning abortions after the 20th week.

There is no getting around that fact. You oppose the idea of abortion but in reality you actively support killing the unborn by voting to keep 98% of abortions legal at the federal level.

@Reynolds voted to keep 43% of abortions legal in GA and 98% legal federally.

Those are FACTS.

 

[Van]

I never claim SNIP.

Nothing new, nothing beneficial to the body of Christ...

 

[JonC]

Nothing new, nothing beneficial to the body of Christ...

Learn to read.

You think that anybody who does not vote is voting for the DNC. That's fine.

But for those of us who do not vote, many of us think supporting any party that seeks to protect any abortion (even if as a compromise) is pro-abortion.

The benefit to tge believer is to consider what matters more - ones ideas or ones actions.

You believe abortion is wrong, yet you support abortion in order not to make the "perfect an enemy to the good".

 

[Van]

Learn to read.SNIP
".

I have told you my position. You think not voting for the best choice is better. Nuff said.

 

[JonC]

I have told you my position. You think not voting for the best choice is better. Nuff said.

Wrong.

I think that Christians should prayerfully consider their choices and follow their conscience.

 

[Van]

Wrong.

I think that Christians should prayerfully consider their choices and follow their conscience.

No one disagreed with that.
What I said is sometimes Christians need to change their choice in light of enlightenment.

 

[JonC]

No one disagreed with that.
What I said is sometimes Christians need to change their choice in light of enlightenment.

You disagreed with that when I said that we need to pray and follow our conscience. Rather than saying for you this means voting for Republicans you said for me it was opposing Christ.

What you failed to realize is that I am convinced it is wrong to support abortion even if the ultimate end is to ban abortion. The end simply does not justify the means.

@Reynolds supports Kemp's commital to keeping abortion up to 6 weeks legal in GA because he believes that evil serves the good (i.e., were Kemp to stand against all abortion he would be making the perfect an enemy of the good).

The GOP is the same. They realize worldly politics is a balance of compromises.

I cannot support abortion, whether only those before 20 weeks or 6 weeks, even if supporting killing those unborn babies will pave the way to restricting more abortions.

 

[Van]

[QUOTE="JonC, post: 2825998, member: 12639" SNIP .[/QUOTE]
Broken record post, repeating when silence would be golden