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This tells me that the non-Catholic churches are more able to adapt to what is available than the Catholic churches. And what I mean by 'adapt' is, apply Scripture to the world we live in instead of living in the past. Obviously the other churches wouldn't have a ruling on ABC before it existed. But unlike the Catholic church they evidently realized it's totally irrational to say NBC is ok and ABC is not. Either it's ok to try to actively manage when you have children or it isn't. I'm still waiting for you to show from Scripture wwhy NBC is ok and ABC isn't.Originally posted by DanPC:
A few groups against the use of ABC (artificial birth control) All Christian churches--Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant until 1930. Catholic Church still against ABC.
That's totally irrelevant, imo. I don't care what they do or think. I care about what is Biblical.Groups for the use of ABC--Planned Parenthood, all pro-abortion groups, Protestant churches (perhaps Orthodox as well) since the 1930s, Communist China, Soviet Union (where 10 abortions is not unusual for a woman), radical feminists.
Then again, it's irrelevant to the church and to Christians. Obviously the church can have one without the other, since conservative Christian churches accept non-abortifacent ABC and do not accept abortion.The acceptance of ABC by a society is soon followed by the acceptance of abortion. You can't have one (this is speaking as a society)
All irrelevant. Let's talk about Scripture and let's talk about Christians. The world does according to what they believe. They always have. So what?without the other. Gotta have something to back up ABC for the unmarried, married that don't want any more children, etc. Look around the world and find a country that has recently accepted the use of ABC. Fairly soon you will see them joining our society with abortions.
It seems to me that the quote you gave really is about abortion, not ABC, fwiw.Originally posted by DanPC:
"This tells me that the non-Catholic churches are more able to adapt to what is available than the Catholic churches."
ABC has been around since before the time of Christ. The Didache 2:2(circa 100) says that "you shall not use potions. You shall not procure abortion, nor destroy a newborn child." Now this is not inspired scripture but is accepted as an early church teaching. The "potions" refer to chemical contoctions that ended pregnancy or made pregnancy unlikely. In this case the adaptation was a complete change in moral teaching.
That's not really true, is it?"Obviously the other churches wouldn't have a ruling on ABC before it existed." Well they did and taught so for about 400 years. If you read Catholic apologetic works prior to 1930 you find that there is little or no mention of birth control. Why? Well, everyone at that time, Protestant and Catholics agreed that it was wrong.
BTW, the Comstock laws and other laws prohibiting the sales of contraceptives were passed by Protestant legislatures, not Catholic.
"I don't decide what God wants from me by looking at non-Christian groups and doing the opposite." No but I don't take my moral teachings from groups that have a primary aim to kill people either.
Yes, I think so. So can you explain why they are wrong, please, if NBC is ok so therefore it IS ok to actively avoid conception?"Obviously the church can have one without the other, since conservative Christian churches accept non-abortifacent ABC and do not accept abortion."
Non-abortifacient ABC leaves just barrier methods.
Actually, I've heard several conservative Christians say they consider it unacceptable because it's abortifacent. On discussion boards. Maybe it depends who you talk to...I am not familiar with any churches other than the Catholic one that don't allow IUD, pill, Norplant, etc. I am sure some must exist someplace but if so I have yet to run across one. I have had some interaction with conservative Christians but have yet to come across one that was against the use of ABC--abortifaceint or otherwise. In fact, a good friend and Baptist I know hadn't ever heard that the pill can be abortifacient.
True. But most Christians who hold to the Bible being true and authoritative tend to reason similarly, from the Bible.It is difficult to speak of the church when speaking of Protestant churches since many are independent and hence may have differing policies.
If that's your Biblical reason can you give me the verse(s) you're thinking of?Originally posted by DanPC:
Dan again......
Abortion and ABC are like any other moral issue in that once you accept it for any reason you soon will accept it for all reasons.
The phrase may be overused, but I have witnessed firsthand God providing for college students during my college days.posted by Johnv
I mean no offense. But I think the phrase "God will provide" is so overused in Christian vocabulary, it often gets to the point where we're to believe that we're supposed to just sit back and let God do the work, and that for us to work for it will somehow interfere with God's plan