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WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)

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3rdAngel

Member
It is not if it is kai, and not Hebrew.

καί kaí, kahee; apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words:—and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet.

mostly translated "and" like Hebrews 1:1

your previous post is unrelated to the verses

Yes it is true that kai is used here for the english word if in v6. This still only demonstrates that your post is irrelavant to your claims that it effects the meaning of HEBREWS 6:4-8 not being those who were "ONCE BELIEVERS" The full meaning of the word is defined here (Bible Hub). kaí is never adversative, i.e. it never means "however" ("but") – unlike the principal conjunction (waw) in OT Hebrew (G. Archer).] My previous posts are not irrelavant as the application both was to God's Salvation and Promises being a "CONDITIONAL PARTICLE" to the HEBREW and GREEK scriptures to "BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's Word.
 
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37818

Well-Known Member
What do the scriptures say in ACTS 17:30-31 and JAMES 4:17? What do you think the meaning is of these scriptures?
My understanding of Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and James 4:17 does not give me your beliefs regarding little children who die before an age where they can repent, believe and follow God's word, or even understand what is good so not to sin. It is against forum rules to suppose what you believe or why. You need to tell me. Thanks.
 

Calminian

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Sorry friend but respectfully I say I think it is you that have not read and ignored the post provided to you and I guess that is why you are now only part quoting what is being written to you. In HEBREWS 6:4-8 the word "ENLIGHTENED" by itself means to KNOW. It is used in CONTEXT of "RECEIVING THE WORD OF GOD", "RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT", "TASTING OF THE WORLD TO COME" and they "TASTING OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT (Christ)" then it goes on to say they "FALL AWAY" from the faith back into a life of wilful known sin. Now please show me how these people were not "ONCE BELIEVERS"? If you cannot why do you not believe the scriptures provided? They are God's Word not mine and we should believe and follow them. We can stop here but we have not even started talking about HEBREWS 10:26-39.

Wow, you really are avoiding John 12:35-36 like the plague. I've never seen someone avoid passages like this.

John 12:35 Jesus therefore said to them, “For a little while longer the light is among you. Walk while you have the light, that darkness may not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes. 36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.”​

Enlightenment is given, but must be responded to in faith. That's straight from Jesus, ".... the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man." (John 1:9)
 

3rdAngel

Member
Wow, you really are avoiding John 12:35-36 like the plague. I've never seen someone avoid passages like this.

John 12:35 Jesus therefore said to them, “For a little while longer the light is among you. Walk while you have the light, that darkness may not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes. 36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.”​

Enlightenment is given, but must be responded to in faith. That's straight from Jesus, ".... the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man." (John 1:9)

Not at all I have addressed your post showing you are in error by denying the rest of the scriptures provided in HEBREWS 6:4-8 showing that these people were "ONCE BELIEVERS" that were "ENLIGHTENED" by the Word of God It is used in CONTEXT of "RECEIVING THE WORD OF GOD", "RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT", "TASTING OF THE WORLD TO COME" and they "TASTING OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT (Christ)" then it goes on to say they "FALL AWAY" from the faith back into a life of wilful known sin.

It is you who is avoiding the OP and HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 like the plague.

Now please show me how these people were not "ONCE BELIEVERS"? If you cannot why do you not believe the scriptures provided? They are God's Word not mine and we should believe and follow them.

This post is only sent in love and as a help to you. I pray you can receive these words in the Spirt they were provided (Love).

Ignoring God's Word does not make them dissappear.
 

3rdAngel

Member
My understanding of Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and James 4:17 does not give me your beliefs regarding little children who die before an age where they can repent, believe and follow God's word, or even understand what is good so not to sin. It is against forum rules to suppose what you believe or why. You need to tell me. Thanks.

Hi numbers, no worries. It is sin that keeps us out of God's kingdom and why we need a Savior because we are all sinners. We are not held accountable to sin until we know it is sin. With those thoughts in mind please re-read ACTS 17:30-31 and JAMES 4:17 and tell me what you think these scriptures mean.

God bless
 

Calminian

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Not at all I have addressed your post showing you are in error by denying the rest of the scriptures provided in HEBREWS 6:4-8 showing that these people were "ONCE BELIEVERS" that were "ENLIGHTENED" by the Word of God It is used in CONTEXT of "RECEIVING THE WORD OF GOD", "RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT", "TASTING OF THE WORLD TO COME" and they "TASTING OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT (Christ)" then it goes on to say they "FALL AWAY" from the faith back into a life of wilful known sin.

It is you who is avoiding the OP and HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 like the plague.

Now please show me how these people were not "ONCE BELIEVERS"? If you cannot why do you not believe the scriptures provided? They are God's Word not mine and we should believe and follow them.

This post is only sent in love and as a help to you. I pray you can receive these words in the Spirt they were provided (Love).

Ignoring God's Word does not make them dissappear.

Well here's your argument, in a paraphrase.

"I believe enlightenment means saved. Jesus said enlightenment is something that must be responded to with faith, but that doesn't agree with my definition of enlightenment, so I won't discuss that passage with you, i'll just keep repeating that enlightenment means saved in Heb. 6:4-8."

I respect your right to that argument. I just don't think it's a good one.
 

3rdAngel

Member
Well here's your argument, in a paraphrase. "I believe enlightenment means saved Jesus said enlightenment is something that must be responded to with faith, but that doesn't agree with my definition of enlightenment, so I won't discuss that passage with you, i'll just keep repeating that enlightenment means saved in Heb. 6:4-8." I respect your right to that argument. I just don't think it's a good one.

Sorry my friend I believe and have said no such thing. These are your words and not mine. I have already posted elsewhere that there is no such term as "SAVED" which is generally used by those who believe the false Gospel of "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. No one receives everlasting life until they "ENDURE TEMPTATION TO THE END" *JAMES 1:12. However, HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 is a WARNING to "BELIEVERS that in regards to those who had departed the faith. These people according to God's Word (not mine) were "ONCE BELIEVERS" that did not "ENDURE TEMPTATION TO THE END.

I posted earlier more that once now showing that God's Word (not mine) says "ENLIGHTENMENT" means to "KNOW" this is written in CONTEXT to "RECEIVING THE WORD OF GOD", "RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT", "TASTING OF THE WORLD TO COME" and they "TASTING OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT (Christ)" then it goes on to say they "FALL AWAY" from the faith back into a life of wilful known sin.

The above is what you are avoiding!

I have already posted from the start that these people are not saved because they have "FALLEN AWAY from the truth to become "UNBELIEVERS". That being said the scripture here are WARNINGS to "BELIEVERS" not to FALL AWAY and depart the faith and the example given here are to those who were "ONCE BELIEVERS" but had departed the faith.

Now please show me how these people were not "ONCE BELIEVERS"? If you cannot why do you not believe the scriptures provided? They are God's Word not mine and we should believe and follow them.

Ignoring God's Word does not make them dissappear. God's Salvation and promises are "CONDITIONAL" on BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word. We can all believe as we wish, however as will all answer to God come judgment day. At this time however there will be many dissappointed at this time thinking they had salvation but never did because they did not really believe and follow Gods' Word *MATTHEW 7:22-26. How sad would that be when those in this position had the chance to hear God's Word and follow it but instead chose to turn away from hearing God's Word because they did not know the time of their visitation and did not hear God calling them.

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God) and follow him.
 
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Calminian

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Rubbish! I have never said any such thing. These are your words and not mine. I posted earlier more that once now showing that God's Word (not mine) says "ENLIGHTENMENT" means to "KNOW" this is written in CONTEXT to "RECEIVING THE WORD OF GOD", "RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT", "TASTING OF THE WORLD TO COME" and they "TASTING OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT (Christ)" then it goes on to say they "FALL AWAY" from the faith back into a life of wilful known sin.

Yes, you've ignored John 12:35-36 which explicitly says enlightenment must be responded to with faith before it is taken away.

Instead you've insisted that other terms like tasted refer to salvation and therefore enlightenment must also refer to salvation.

But if you were thinking logically, you'd say tasted is not referring to salvation, since it's akin to enlightenment, which Jesus said comes before faith. Makes sense because tasted is not the same as drinking or consuming, which would be more in line with salvation—drinking living water. Apparently you're saying all we have to do is taste it.
 

3rdAngel

Member
Yes, you've ignored John 12:35-36 which explicitly says enlightenment must be responded to with faith before it is taken away.

Instead you've insisted that other terms like tasted refer to salvation and therefore enlightenment must also refer to salvation.

But if you were thinking logically, you'd say tasted is not referring to salvation, since it's akin to enlightenment, which Jesus said comes before faith. Makes sense because tasted is not the same as drinking or consuming, which would be more in line with salvation—drinking living water. Apparently you're saying all we have to do is taste it.

Not at all. Your making things up now because you cannot address the scriptures in the posts provided to you that show your in error from HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 so you seek to move away from the posts and scriptures provided to you which are the topic of discussion from God's Word in the OP. Now if you are not willing to address my posts, questions and scriptures provided that disagree with you. Then you are only ignoring God's word and not interested in a discussion in the first place. JOHN 12:35-36 only agrees with the OP and what has been shared with you here. Only those who by faith "BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word are his people. Those who fall away being "ONCE BELIEVERS" are no longer believers but "UNBELIEVERS" and this is the warning given in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 to "BELIEVERS"

God's Sheep Hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him.
 

Calminian

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Site Supporter
Not at all your making things up now because you cannot address the scriptures in the posts provided to you that show your in error from HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 so you seek to move away from the posts and scriptures provided to you which are the topic of discussion from God's Word in the OP. Now if you are not willing to address my posts, questions and scriptures provided that disagree with you. Then you are only ignoring God's word and not interested in a discussion in the first place. JOHN 12:35-36 only agrees with the OP and what I have shared with you here. Only those who by faith "BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word are his people. Those who fall away being "ONCE BELIEVERS" are no longer believers but "UNBELIEVERS"

Well I'm moving to the words of Jesus to figure out what enlightenment means. You're moving away to your own reasoning to decide for yourself with enlightenment means. You've decided, a priori, that is a salvation term, but that's your own reasoning. That's not from Scripture.

Jesus is the light of the world who enlightens every man (John 1:9). Jesus beseeched us to respond to enlightenment with faith that we might become sons of light.

John 12:36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.”​

That word become completely destroys your entire theory that enlightenment is a salvation term. One does not become a son of light by being enlightened. One becomes a son of light be responding to the enlightenment God gives with belief.

The individual in Hebrews 6, who is described as enlightened, was never described as believing in the light. He is merely called once enlightened. Jesus specifically said, that's not enough to become a son of light.
 
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3rdAngel

Member
Well I'm moving to the words of Jesus to figure out what enlightenment means. You're moving away to your own reasoning to decide for yourself with enlightenment means. You've decided, a priori, that is a salvation term, but that's your own reasoning. That's not from Scripture.

Jesus is the light of the world who enlightens every man (John 1:9). Jesus beseeched us to respond to enlightenment with faith that we might become sons of light.

John 12:36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.”​

That word become completely destroys your entire theory that enlightenment is a salvation term. One does not become a son of light by being enlightened. One becomes a son of light be responding to the enlightenment God gives with belief.

The individual in Hebrews 6, who is described as enlightened, was never described as believing in the light. He is merely called once enlightened.

Ok friend you believe as you wish your salvation is between you and God. I choose to believe and follow God's Word. I only wish you the best and hope to see you in God's Kingdom. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.

Gods Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him. Those who are not God's Sheep do not hear his Word neither do they follow.
 

Calminian

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Ok friend you believe as you wish your salvation is between you and God. I choose to believe and follow God's Word. I only wish you the best and hope to see you in God's Kingdom.

Thanks, I feel the same for you.

But, I disagree you're following God's word. Unfortunately, you're avoiding the words of Jesus in John 12:36, which clearly says enlightenment is not enough. You have to place your trust in the light, to become sons of light.

John 12:36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.”​

I haven't heard one comment yet on this verse.
 
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3rdAngel

Member
Thanks, I feel the same for you. But, I disagree you're following God's word. Unfortunately, you're avoiding the words of Jesus in John 12:36, which clearly says enlightenment is not enough. You have to place your trust in the light, to become sons of light John 12:36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.” I haven't heard one comment yet on this verse.

You have only been provided God's Word. God's Word is God's and not mine. In response you provide your own words to deny God's Word which are your words and not God's. This post only shows you are not reading the posts and the scriptures provided to you and is not true at all. Please see post # 209 linked. Not to mention all the scriptures provided in post # 204 linked that show you are in error. The light shines in darkness; but the darkness does not understand. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Light is come into the world, but men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Who can know the Word of God when there is no Word? Do we come to the light or do we not? By their fruits you shall know them. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear but only shows those who do not come to the light and choose to hide in darkness. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him. Those who do not hear and do not follow are not God's Sheep.
 
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Calminian

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This post only shows you are not reading the posts and the scriptures provided to you and is not true at all. Please see post # 209 linked. Not to mention all the scriptures provided in post # 204 linked that show you are in error.

The light shines in darkness; but the darkness does not understand. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Light is come into the world, but men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Who can know the Word of God when there is no Word? Do we come to the light or do we not? By their fruits you shall know them. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear but only shows those who do not come to the light.

Hope this helps.

All those are compatible with John 12:36 which says that we who have the light have to respond (believe) in order to become sons of light. There's a difference between having light and becoming a son of light.

John 12:36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.”​

The Hebrews author speaks of one who is enlightened but not yet a son of light. It's so simple.
 

mailmandan

Active Member
Thanks, I feel the same for you.

But, I disagree you're following God's word. Unfortunately, you're avoiding the words of Jesus in John 12:36, which clearly says enlightenment is not enough. You have to place your trust in the light, to become sons of light.

John 12:36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.”​

I haven't heard one comment yet on this verse.
Amen! As I already explained in post #65, the words once enlightened means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.

WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)
 

3rdAngel

Member
All those are compatible with John 12:36 which says that we who have the light have to respond (believe) in order to become sons of light. There's a difference between having light and becoming a son of light.

John 12:36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.”​

The Hebrews author speaks of one who is enlightened but not yet a son of light. It's so simple.

HEBREWS 6:4-8 says that these people had the light but departed from the light. God's Word not mine says these people were "ENLIGHTENED" by the Word of God It is used in CONTEXT of "RECEIVED THE WORD OF GOD", "RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT", "TASTED OF THE GOOD WORLD TO COME" and "TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT (Christ)" then it goes on to say they "FALL AWAY" from the faith back into a life of wilful known sin. These people were "ONCE BELIEVERS" that departed the faith. These are God's Word not mine and we should believe them. The scriptures in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 is not talking about those who never believed and followed God's Word.
 

3rdAngel

Member
Amen! As I already explained in post #65, the words once enlightened means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.

WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)

Your post was responded to in detail showing you through the scriptures why you are in error and showing you were making claims that no one was ever making and said. Yet you choose not to believe.

Your post was simply your words denying God's Word. It is God's Word (not my words) that says both in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 is written for "BELIEVERS" and are a WARNING to "BELIEVERS" not to depart the faith. These are God's Word not mine and they disagree with your words which are not God's which teach those who fall away and depart the faith were...

1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
2. Tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
3. Were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5

Then we have your words from your post teaching; No! God's Word does not really say what is written. According to your words, these people were;

1. never really were once enlightened (MMD)
2. never tasted of the heavenly gift (MMD)
3. never really were partakers of the Holy Ghost (MMD)
4. never really tasted the good word of God (MMD)
5. never really tasted of the power of the world to come (MMD).

These my friend are your words that deny God's Word when only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them. I know who I believe and follow and it is not you.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God) and follow Him. Those who are not God's Sheep do not hear His Voice.

"ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" is a false Gospel that leads all those who believe and follow it away from God's Word. It is the first lie proclaimed by the father of lies in Eden to Eve which caused the fall of mankind and teaches you can break God's commandment and not surely die *GENESIS 3:1-5.

Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10.

RED FLAGS alright to those who lead others away from God's Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God.

Salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word.

If we do not believe and follow God's Word (present tense) then we are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27.

This is only written in love and as a help to you.
 

Calminian

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
HEBREWS 6:4-8 says that these people had the light but departed from the light.

Yes, they had the light, but didn't believe in the light to become sons of light. Hmmm, where have I heard that before? Oh yeah:

John 12:35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.​

"RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT",

Nope, doesn't say that. The Hebrews authors said partakers, not receivers. You just added to Scripture.

"TASTED OF THE GOOD WORLD TO COME" "TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT

but not consumed.

These people were "ONCE BELIEVERS"....

Your words, not Scripture. You're adding to the Word of God. They were enlightened with knowledge, but not called sons of light because they did not believe in that light.
 

Calminian

Well-Known Member
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I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person truly "lost their salvation." NOWHERE does the Bible use the words "lose or lost salvation." According to the hypothetical interpretation, the key word in the passage is IF (verse 6). According to this view, the writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: "IF a Christian were to fall away." The point being made is that it would be impossible IF a Christian fell away to renew them again. That’s because Christ died once for sin and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all. The passage then presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion that they would crucify again for themselves the Son of God.

In regards to the never truly saved view, the words, once enlightened - which means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.

In regards to partakers of the Holy Spirit, which describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an undertaking. It speaks of those who are participators in sharing in, a partner in a work, office, dignity. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews 3:14 in the context of believers, "For we have become partakers of Christ," so at first glance, partakers of the Holy Spirit "on the surface" would seem to support that true believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the indwelling of believers. It's plausible to envision an individual becoming a sharer in or partaker of the Spirit (his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come) by temporarily responding to His drawing power intended to lead sinners to Christ. *Note that the writer of Hebrews does not state that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or have "received the Spirit's pledge which is the guarantee of future inheritance." Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)

In regards to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the quality and character of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Do we taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).

In regards to fall away, in Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. Those who permanently fall away demonstrate they were not truly born again.

In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this agricultural metaphor, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. When we recall other metaphors in Scripture where good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35), we already have an indication that the most trustworthy evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that the writer of Hebrews is talking about people who are not genuine believers.

*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation.

It's generally stated by those who believe salvation can be lost that you can get it back again, yet that would not be the case here if the writer of Hebrews was teaching a loss of salvation. Now why is it that we never find the words "lose or lost your salvation" in the Bible? That would certainly settle the issue for me. I have heard certain individuals state they know someone who was truly saved, but later lost their salvation, yet only God truly knows the heart of individuals. Certain people "on the surface" may do a good job of looking like the real deal for a while (like Judas Iscariot, who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) yet to the other 11 disciples, he looked like the real deal, but Jesus knew his heart. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

*It never ceases to amaze me how the people who attack the OSAS/perseverance/preservation of the saints doctrine the most and in cynical fashion are those who teach salvation by works and ALL false religions and cults that teach salvation by works strongly disagree with OSAS, which has always been a red flag for me. ;)

Thanks, didn't catch this before. Good points.
 

Calminian

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Site Supporter
Furthermore, the author sums up the thought saying,

Heb. 6:9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.​

The author did not believe his readers would fall away, because he believed they were saved. The saved don't fall away.
 
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