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Warrenites arise! Time to defend your leader again.

J

Joe

New Member
webdog said:
I understand he is not everyone's cup of tea...particularly those who have been believers for a while, as he is more milk based, but to see the constant attacks on him and his church is sickening.
Click to expand...

I wondered about this very same thing, and the term "milk" term came to mind when listening to the link. So I'll ask....

Do you think he may partly be using those terms and examples (such as getting another chance) to simplify the explanation of salvation? Maybe to provide "milk" to listeners since that is the general level of most people? The media often only allows him a few minutes to speak.
He may use biblical terms and explain Salvation more thoroughly when preaching to his congregation.
 
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webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Joe said:
I wondered about this very same thing, and the term "milk" term came to mind when listening to the link. So I'll ask....

Do you think he may partly be using those terms and examples (such as getting another chance) to simplify the explanation of salvation? Maybe to provide "milk" to listeners since that is the general level of most people? The media often only allows him a few minutes to speak.
He may use biblical terms and explain Salvation more thoroughly when preaching to his congregation.
Click to expand...
I think that's exactly what he's doing, Joe. I took the "second chance" comment as pertaining to mankind, not individuals. You would never think that the way the guy just cut in and "interpreted" what RW meant based on his presupposition.

On problem I have with the Way of the Master is their view that focusing on sin and wrath is the ONLY way to present the Gospel. That is one way, but God's mercy, God's love are also part of The Gospel.
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
webdog said:
On problem I have with the Way of the Master is their view that focusing on sin and wrath is the ONLY way to present the Gospel. That is one way, but God's mercy, God's love are also part of The Gospel.
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You cannot be without one or the other. And the Way of the Master is balanced.
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
...and you both have swallowed that line of thinking as many have.

Please supply what is "dangerous" about the 5 purposes PDL is based on.
 
J

JerryL

New Member
webdog said:
...and you both have swallowed that line of thinking as many have.

Please supply what is "dangerous" about the 5 purposes PDL is based on.
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Everybody can come up with his "false" teachings, but I have yet to see anyone explain his false teachings. Bottom line, he isn't a traditionalist and don't do it the way "we have always done it." If someone is against his teachings, please go through some of them and explain where he is wrong, don't just say "his teachings are dangerous." Show us.

Edit: I have both books, purpose life and purpose church. We can look through where he is dangerous.
 
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F

freeatlast

New Member
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
freeatlast said:
There is so much to explain about this man because he is so deceptiive that it would take up page after page. He is like a quick channge artist with words. So instead of that here are some links for anyone to look over;

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/questions/RickWarren_growth.html

http://www.bibleguidance.co.za/Engarticles/RickWarren.htm

[URL="http://dailydiscernment.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/false-teaching-rick-warren-encourages-lying-to-children/"]http://dailydiscernment.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/false-teaching-rick-warren-encourages-lying-to-children/[/URL]
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Instead of supplying links of those with a like agenda...why not tell me yourself. Start with the five purposes, and why they are "dangerous".
 
J

JerryL

New Member
Like webdog, I would like to know what Beth and freeatlast (or any other anti-RWite for that matter) thinks is so dangerous about his teachings. Namely his five purposes. I'll even help you out by posting them:

We were planned for God’s pleasure, so your first purpose is to offer real worship.
We were formed for God’s family, so your second purpose is to enjoy real fellowship.
We were created to become like Christ, so your third purpose is to learn real discipleship.
We were shaped for serving God, so your fourth purpose is to practice real ministry.
We were made for a mission, so your fifth purpose is to live out real evangelism.

http://www.purposedrivenlife.com/en-US/AboutUs/AboutTheBook/AboutTheBook.htm

Feel free to tear that apart and prove your points to us.
 
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J

just-want-peace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
My SS class went through his PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE, and while I did not agree with all his methods/conclusions etc. I found nothing to become alarmed about as to heresy and/or false teachings.

A little elaboration from the detractors with quotes of RW, in context of course, would be appreciated.

Be a lot easier to discuss (if that's the point) if we know your take rather than just some 3rd party, and you saying "YEAH!"
 
B

Beth

New Member
Deception

I'm posting this commentary because this man's take on Purpose Driven is exactly mine.

I also tried to read the Purpose Driven Life a few years back. I couldn't get past the first three pages, because I didn't recognize the Bible quotes. I also had to go back to the list of "bibles", find the Bible reference in a real Bible (NOT the the "translation" called "Message") and then go back and reread Rick's paragraph to see whether he was using the reference correctly.

What I decided was that the Bible was good enough for me. ...sufficient for my instruction.

Here is the commentary which sums up my take on Rick Warren.

http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue80.htm

Really, in all love, please folks don't go following a man. Just the title of this thread sets off HUGE red lights for me....even calling yourself a Warrenite simply contradicts Scripture.

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 ¶ Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 ¶ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Apparently, this subject is emotional for the followers of Warren, so this will be my last post on this thread. Please pray that the Lord give you discernment and understanding, that the Holy Spirit lead you to all Truth.

Your sister in Christ,
Beth
 
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K

KJVkid

New Member
On a message board where nothing is ABSOLUTE, why do you folks think that a humanistic ministry wouldn't be the rage?
 
J

JerryL

New Member
Beth said:
I'm posting this commentary because this man's take on Purpose Driven is exactly mine.

I also tried to read the Purpose Driven Life a few years back. I couldn't get past the first three pages, because I didn't recognize the Bible quotes. I also had to go back to the list of "bibles", find the Bible reference in a real Bible (NOT the the abomination called "Message") and then go back and reread Rick's paragraph to see whether he was using the reference correctly.

What I decided was that the Bible was good enough for me. ...sufficient for my instruction.

Here is the commentary which sums up my take on Rick Warren.

http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue80.htm

Really, in all love, please folks don't go following a man. Just the title of this thread sets off HUGE red lights for me....even calling yourself a Warrenite simply contradicts Scripture.

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 ¶ Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 ¶ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Apparently, this subject is emotional for the followers of Warren, so this will be my last post on this thread. Please pray that the Lord give you discernment and understanding, that the Holy Spirit lead you to all Truth.

Your sister in Christ,
Beth
Click to expand...
I am not a follower of RW. Webdog and I merely asked you to refute his five points without using other peoples words. It seems you still can't do it. You can't refute his five points because it is Biblical. You are contradicting your self with the follow a man analogy because you can't even put into your own words(with quotes of RW) where he is teaching unbiblical truths. The above two posters can't either. All I here is about truth being rejected by RW. Show us where. Beth all you do is copycat what you read on the net, and because he has the biggest congregation in American SB. I have yet to see one line of refuting his work here other than web pages that are against him. Do any of you know that he gives away 90% of what he makes. I dare say none of us even get close to those percentages. He has money and a big Church and people have to question how he does it. He is working for the Gospel , let him work. There is a difference in seeker sensitive and seeker friendly. He is seeker sensitive in that he keeps the Gospel message and takes away the stumbling blocks. Seeker friendly changes to message to attract the audience. RW doesn't do that. If you people can't use your own words and not copycat the net, I would just remain silent. Again, where is he wrong in his 5 points?

We were planned for God’s pleasure, so your first purpose is to offer real worship.
We were formed for God’s family, so your second purpose is to enjoy real fellowship.
We were created to become like Christ, so your third purpose is to learn real discipleship.
We were shaped for serving God, so your fourth purpose is to practice real ministry.
We were made for a mission, so your fifth purpose is to live out real evangelism.


Where is he going wrong here? Beth, you say this guy's words are exactly how you feel. How did you come to think just like him? Show just one example of where his ministry has affected you or has changed the gospel. Stand up and use your experiences and words, not copycat stuff.
 
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A

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"Warrenites" is a derogatory term that someone who is against the teachings of Rick Warren has coined. I do not follow the teachings of Rick Warren but of the Lord through His Word. However, there are men of God out there who have helped me to organize some of my thoughts to be able to focus on what God wants me to be about. I know our pastor has done the same thing and there are certain things that I will remember - with the Scripture to back it up - so that I can be more effective in my life and in my teaching others. Of course NONE of us should follow a man - or listen to his teachings without studying them for ourselves. I've learned a lot this way.

Rick Warren is a man. He's human. He's fallible as are all of us. However, he is not the Antichrist nor is he a demon. While I don't agree with everything he has said, much of what he has said is right on and solid. But of course, there will be people who will be against anyone who uses anything but the KJV (as we see above - calling the Message an "abomination" which is very strong words - it's not a version but a paraphrase but I don't think even God would call it an abomination), who does anything differently than them or maybe, just maybe, is a little successful. I admire a lot of things about this guy and he's a man who's heart is towards the Lord.
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JerryL said:
Like webdog, I would like to know what Beth and freeatlast (or any other anti-RWite for that matter) thinks is so dangerous about his teachings. Namely his five purposes. I'll even help you out by posting them:

We were planned for God’s pleasure, so your first purpose is to offer real worship.
We were formed for God’s family, so your second purpose is to enjoy real fellowship.
We were created to become like Christ, so your third purpose is to learn real discipleship.
We were shaped for serving God, so your fourth purpose is to practice real ministry.
We were made for a mission, so your fifth purpose is to live out real evangelism.

http://www.purposedrivenlife.com/en-US/AboutUs/AboutTheBook/AboutTheBook.htm

Feel free to tear that apart and prove your points to us.
Click to expand...

Great! Where is the scripture to back them up? Done.
 
C

christianyouth

New Member
JerryL said:
I am not a follower of RW. Webdog and I merely asked you to refute his five points without using other peoples words. It seems you still can't do it. You can't refute his five points because it is Biblical. You are contradicting your self with the follow a man analogy because you can't even put into your own words(with quotes of RW) where he is teaching unbiblical truths. The above two posters can't either. All I here is about truth being rejected by RW. Show us where. Beth all you do is copycat what you read on the net, and because he has the biggest congregation in American SB. I have yet to see one line of refuting his work here other than web pages that are against him. Do any of you know that he gives away 90% of what he makes. I dare say none of us even get close to those percentages. He has money and a big Church and people have to question how he does it. He is working for the Gospel , let him work. There is a difference in seeker sensitive and seeker friendly. He is seeker sensitive in that he keeps the Gospel message and takes away the stumbling blocks. Seeker friendly changes to message to attract the audience. RW doesn't do that. If you people can't use your own words and not copycat the net, I would just remain silent. Again, where is he wrong in his 5 points?

We were planned for God’s pleasure, so your first purpose is to offer real worship.
We were formed for God’s family, so your second purpose is to enjoy real fellowship.
We were created to become like Christ, so your third purpose is to learn real discipleship.
We were shaped for serving God, so your fourth purpose is to practice real ministry.
We were made for a mission, so your fifth purpose is to live out real evangelism.


Where is he going wrong here? Beth, you say this guy's words are exactly how you feel. How did you come to think just like him? Show just one example of where his ministry has affected you or has changed the gospel. Stand up and use your experiences and words, not copycat stuff.
Click to expand...

You're making it sound as if the critics of RW attack him solely on the basis of is '5 points'. That's not true. I've read the book at the library, and I think it is a good message for Christians to hear. It actually encouraged me. I think the danger, at least the danger that I see, is the way he preaches the Gospel. The major criticism is that he doesn't portray sin as diabolical, and doesn't emphasize God's wrath enough. Whether or not this is true, we can debate it. But he is widely influential, and as Christians we have an obligation to earnestly contend for the faith, so I don't see what is wrong with critically assessing his teachings and his 'tone'.

I think my big disagreement with him on the Christmas sermon was that he used 'loneliness' as a draw card. He spoke of the peace, love, and joy that Christians experience, and used that to drive people to Christ. I would say the best sermon that refutes this notion, is Hell's Best Kept Secret by Ray Comfort. You can get it at www.wayofthemaster.com . It is preached by Kirk Cameron and it's entitled, 'Soundly Saved'.
 
J

JerryL

New Member
annsni said:
"Warrenites" is a derogatory term that someone who is against the teachings of Rick Warren has coined. I do not follow the teachings of Rick Warren but of the Lord through His Word. However, there are men of God out there who have helped me to organize some of my thoughts to be able to focus on what God wants me to be about. I know our pastor has done the same thing and there are certain things that I will remember - with the Scripture to back it up - so that I can be more effective in my life and in my teaching others. Of course NONE of us should follow a man - or listen to his teachings without studying them for ourselves. I've learned a lot this way.

Rick Warren is a man. He's human. He's fallible as are all of us. However, he is not the Antichrist nor is he a demon. While I don't agree with everything he has said, much of what he has said is right on and solid. But of course, there will be people who will be against anyone who uses anything but the KJV (as we see above - calling the Message an "abomination" which is very strong words - it's not a version but a paraphrase but I don't think even God would call it an abomination), who does anything differently than them or maybe, just maybe, is a little successful. I admire a lot of things about this guy and he's a man who's heart is towards the Lord.
Click to expand...

Amen. Well said.:thumbs:
 
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