was Apostle John referring to Saints/Sinners In 1 John?

We don't have any gnosticism in our church. Do you have in yours?
Please give an example.

 

Yea right! I have never seen any church where there is not some form of gnosticism in someone. The person may not know it is a form of gnosticism but they have it. It is like wicca. Most churches, probably all, today have wicca in them in some form.

 

FAL, I don't know what goes on in your church, but I have always attended IFB churches and have heard the gospel preached hundreds of times. We always teach that a person must realize they are a sinner and cannot earn salvation. We teach that the wages of sin is death, and that if you sin even ONCE in your lifetime that you must pay the penalty and go to hell for your sin. We teach that Jesus died for ALL our sins, past, present, and future, and that if a person will trust Christ, ALL their sins will be forgiven.

We do not teach you have to sit down and remember all your sins, such a thing is impossible. We teach that a person must simply confess they are a sinner and have come short of the glory of God which is absolute perfection.

The problem with your view is that we all live in continuous sin. It is all perspective. You say you only sin once a week, that sounds pretty good. But if you shoplifted from a store once a week, do you think that store would consider you a continuous thief? YES. If you killed someone once a year, do you think the police would consider you a continuous murderer? YES.

So, you minimize your own sin. No true Christian wants to sin, but in reality we all do. When we do so, fellowship is broken, but we are still saved. We confess our sin to restore fellowship with God.

 

Winn why do you have to twist what is said to give your position. Is that not what satan does? You add to change and even make false claims. Are you afraid of the truth?

 

Notice how when exposed freeatlast resorts to attack mode.

Excellent post winman! :thumbs:

 

Sorry you lost me on that one. Please translate.

 

I assume you have not been reading my posts. John was writing to the church to combat false teachings that came from gnosticism.

 

1 John 1
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.



The main point(s) of the first two chapters of the book is that when we sin, we have Jesus, our advocate, who pleads our case to the Father. The Father sees us through the blood of Jesus, Who is our righteouness. Our righteousnees is as filthy rags, but we are made righteous in His shed blood. Whenever we stumble, He is there to pick us up, and set up back on the "straight and narrow" path.

 

Just for the record, John makes it absolutely clear who the "we" are in his first epistle:

1 John 5

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.​

HankD​

 

John refers to such false teachings but that is not the stated purpose for writing this epistle (I Jn. 5:13) and he is not addressing this epistle to the lost but to "my little children."

That is factually wrong! First, the plural first person inclusive pronoun "we" has already been contextually established in verses 1-3 to be descriptive of the apostles and saints without any mention of the lost between verses 4 to 7. Grammatically pronouns must be traced back to their nearest antecedent and there is no reference to any lost person or persons previous to the use in verse 8-10. No writer with any common sense would change horses in mid-stream as the purpose of writing is to clarify not confuse.

The "we" refers to all who are children of God by profession and the repeated "if" is designed to introduce the criteria to distinguish those who possess from those who merely profess as this is the repeated design of the letter to provide criteria that the reader can know they are saved from those who are lost professors.

The "if" does not assume the lost condition of anyone but merely introduces the criteria to distinguish the true from the false professor. The false professor is defined by the negative criteria in each verse.

Evidence that a professor does not possess Christ is that they DENY they have sin (v. 8) or DENY they need to confess sin (v 9). These are the marks of FALSE PROFESSORS and FALSE RELIGIONS.

 

In answer to the OP, we are both Saints, and sinners.

Paul called himself the chief of sinners, or the foremost of all in 1 Timothy 1:15.

That label is in the present tense.

I am not saying we live in the practice of sin. Just saying what the Word says to us.

 

Your sentence structure makes your thinking difficult to follow.

You agree he is addressing true believers!

Your words "sins once committed" is factually repudiated by verse 8. John does not use any completed action tense in verse 8 but rather incompleted action. "If we are presently saying, we presently have no sin, we are presently decieving ourselves and the truth is presently not in us."

John is explicitly including himself as he is PRESENTLY speaking and presently denying the present absence of sin within himself and believers. Those who deny this present existence of indwelling sin are presently deceived and presently do not have truth in them concerning this very issue!

 

I don't think he is saying "we are NOT the ones who haved decieved THEMSELVES" but he is rather stating a general principle applicable to EVERYONE who professes to be a believer including himself - if the shoe fits wear it - is his application. Not that "we" in the first part of the verse is directed to one type of subject and then transforming "we" in the second part to fit another type of subject but it is the SAME "we" inclusive of himself in both parts. There are some real true born again Christians who have been mislead to beleive they live above sin. So this text fits them without denying their salvation but does not fit those who do not believe that - both equally christian.