Jarthur001
Active Member
Andy T. said:
I forgot about that one...
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Was Jesus A Man Before the Incarnation?
- Thread starter Marcia
- Start date
I forgot about that one...
Brother Bob
New Member
You said that maybe the angels went and preached to them.Jauthor001;
I forgot about that one...
Jarthur001
Active Member
please repost to show this.Brother Bob said:
If I remember right...I said.."even if one would say a angel preached all over the world (letting you have your point), there are some that have more grace".....or something like that.
Now..I may be wrong...but that is how I remember it.
In Christ...James
Jarthur001
Active Member
never mind...believe what you want.webdog said:
Jarthur001
Active Member
Well....I'm not sure that I didwebdog said:
But nonetheless...in the future..yes this will happen. Now now...but in the future...to the Jews..i think it says.
However...The Jesus goes around preaching to native tribes in the jungle...where the tribes say.."is that who that was?"...or whatever was posted. That story can only be heard by Mormons.
Y'all,
I have an interesting thought -- Jesus was Adam. Think about it -- Jesus was "the resurrection" when He lived. Doesn't that mean that He had to have a previous existence? Wasn't He "resurrected" by the Spirit resurrecting Him in Mary much as the OT saints will be "resurrected"/"born again" by the Spirit from their graves?
What if Jesus had been Adam -- how would He appear to OT saints? As an "angel," right? "Angel of the Lord." Not embodied yet -- not until the resurrection.
Didn't Adam take on the sin of Eve in order to save her, not because he was "deceived?" Which command should Adam have followed -- don't eat the fruit OR "therefore shall a man leave his FATHER and mother and cleave unto his wife!"
Someone has mentioned that Adam never had to offer animal sacrfices. Why? Was Adam already justified?
Could it be that Adam was referred to as "Lord" while he lived? Review Gen 1-4. That he could have "walked with" Enoch?
How can one be raptured? Not until one is first "resurrected," right? Are YOU quickened by the Spirit unto terrestrial "resurrected" glory, 1Cor 15?? Jesus was raptured after death unto "celestial glory," right? No "blood" as the incident with Thomas demonstrated.
"First Adam, Second Adam," right? Jesus saves His own creation, right?
Jesus is the "Way," right? Suppose that WE must be "born again," then raptured. That IS the only way to salvation, right?
skypair
I have an interesting thought -- Jesus was Adam. Think about it -- Jesus was "the resurrection" when He lived. Doesn't that mean that He had to have a previous existence? Wasn't He "resurrected" by the Spirit resurrecting Him in Mary much as the OT saints will be "resurrected"/"born again" by the Spirit from their graves?
What if Jesus had been Adam -- how would He appear to OT saints? As an "angel," right? "Angel of the Lord." Not embodied yet -- not until the resurrection.
Didn't Adam take on the sin of Eve in order to save her, not because he was "deceived?" Which command should Adam have followed -- don't eat the fruit OR "therefore shall a man leave his FATHER and mother and cleave unto his wife!"
Someone has mentioned that Adam never had to offer animal sacrfices. Why? Was Adam already justified?
Could it be that Adam was referred to as "Lord" while he lived? Review Gen 1-4. That he could have "walked with" Enoch?
How can one be raptured? Not until one is first "resurrected," right? Are YOU quickened by the Spirit unto terrestrial "resurrected" glory, 1Cor 15?? Jesus was raptured after death unto "celestial glory," right? No "blood" as the incident with Thomas demonstrated.
"First Adam, Second Adam," right? Jesus saves His own creation, right?
Jesus is the "Way," right? Suppose that WE must be "born again," then raptured. That IS the only way to salvation, right?
skypair
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
Jarthur001
Active Member
skypair said:
Adam is not really a name. It is Hebrew meaning man.
Back to the drawing board.
Jarthur001
Active Member
Gold Dragon said:
Indeed... and below you will see this clear as day...
This was posted a few pages back. Context helps greatly in this passage. "Face" {{paniym}} can indeed be translated "face". But more then anything it is tranlated "before". The real idea and meaning is "front part"...or "before". Notice the action in the context. God is passing by to show His glory.
1st comes His front side...the "face" side....front part of His glory
Last his back side...{{achowr}} is just what it says...back parts
Now what do you do with hand? Hand has the meaning of a hollowed hand....or cupped. Mainly the plam...cupped like when you drink with your hands.
The same word is translated spoons below..
Exd 25:29 And thou shalt make the dishes thereof, and spoons thereof, and covers thereof, and bowls thereof, to cover withal: [of] pure gold shalt thou make them.
Hollow here...
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
So now look at the passage...
"and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by."
God is placing him in a cleft rock...cupped out...hollowed out...and this is the covering.
******************
added later...
After posting this I looked this up. The hand part is weak...I will give you that.
I stand behind the other word(face). The meaning I posted is right on both words, but hand ...ok it will be a tough sale. But still it does not mean a real hand being God is a Spirit.
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Marcia
Active Member
skypair said:
I hope you are making some kind of joke. This is what New Ager/occultist Edgar Cayce taught.
Reincarnation is not biblical! Yikes!
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Skypair, please tell us you do not believe in reincarnation!
raying:skypair said:
This is Mormon doctrine. Not well known every Mormon doctrine but doctrine known to LDS people who study and are really into their religion. It was first taught by Brigam Young, called Adam-God doctrin.
The LDS church have distanced themselfs from the Adam-god doctrine in public while still teaching it to there seasoned members. They do not flat out denie the doctrine.
They still openly teach the Adam-ondi-Ahman doctrine, but do not talk much about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-God
Youngs doctrine is an extention of Joseph Smith Adam-ondi-Ahman doctrine that says Adam is the ancient of days referred to in the book of Daniel (Jesus) and the garden of eden is in Gallatin Missouri. He said that Missouri is where Jesus-Adam will return and build his kingdom.
The term Adam-ondi-Ahman has been speculatively translated as the "Valley of God, where Adam dwelt" (by Orson Pratt), "The valley of God in which Adam blessed his children" (by LDS historian John Corrill), "Adam's grave" (by Community of Christ historian Herman C. Smith), or "Adam with God," because in scriptures by Joseph Smith, Jr., the term Son Ahman is said to refer to Jesus. (LDS D&C 78:20.) The term Ahman, therefore, is popularly interpreted to mean "God".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-ondi-Ahman
skypair said:
This thought is strict LDS doctrin. The idea that Adam was given two contradictory commands by God so that he would have to fall. The idea that God "set Adam up to fall" and wanted Adam to fall. The LDS teach that God needed Adam to fall because he wanted man to know evil so man could know good.
I have heard the version that I have quoted from sky above but the more common version is that Adam had to choose wether to not eat the fruit or to be fruitful and multiply. Mormons claim he could not do both.
Skypair, Do you have Mormon influences in your thinking? Not ment to be an insult but you have some of the doctirn down pat.
Actually it is one of the teaching of the Word of Faith movements
Another like it in this same movement is that "we' are Christs, just like "we" are a smaller class of God beings. ie. Adam was made to be God on earth. God reproduced Himself in the form of Adam in the likeness of Himself.
I am not saying Skypair holds to this view, however I would ask Sky if he holds this after reading his post. I am stating it because it is actually becoming a prevelent view to those who adhere to the heresy of the Word of Faith Movement or Positive Confession Movement.
Another like it in this same movement is that "we' are Christs, just like "we" are a smaller class of God beings. ie. Adam was made to be God on earth. God reproduced Himself in the form of Adam in the likeness of Himself.
I am not saying Skypair holds to this view, however I would ask Sky if he holds this after reading his post. I am stating it because it is actually becoming a prevelent view to those who adhere to the heresy of the Word of Faith Movement or Positive Confession Movement.
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Dick Fischer
New Member
Jesus was God, Adam was man
Jesus was God incarnate. Before Jesus (man and God) was born, "Jesus" lived as God in spirit. It is possible the Akkadians knew him as Ea whom the Sumernians adopted as Enki, meaning "Lord of the earth." Ea could be an early form of Emanuel. Also, Ea had a sacred number - 40. Not an insignificant number in the life of Christ. This will all be in my book due out about six months hence. Mean while, please check out our web page - www.genesisproclaimed.org
Jesus was God incarnate. Before Jesus (man and God) was born, "Jesus" lived as God in spirit. It is possible the Akkadians knew him as Ea whom the Sumernians adopted as Enki, meaning "Lord of the earth." Ea could be an early form of Emanuel. Also, Ea had a sacred number - 40. Not an insignificant number in the life of Christ. This will all be in my book due out about six months hence. Mean while, please check out our web page - www.genesisproclaimed.org
Faith alone
New Member
That sounds a lot like the Gnosticism heresy of the 1st and 2nd century which hounded the apostles - in particular, John.Dick Fischer said:
Jesus is, has always been, and will always be God. He became flesh - that is, He became a human being at a point-in-time.
John 1:9-14[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was created through Him, yet the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own people did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God. The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Romans 1:3 [/FONT]concerning His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who was a descendant of David according to the flesh
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How could Jesus be a descendant of David according to the flesh if He always has been man?
Romans 8:3, 4 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]What the law could not do since it was limited by the flesh, God did. He condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son in flesh like ours under sin's domain, and as a sin offering, in order that the law's requirement would be accomplished in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
God sent His Son in the flesh. He became flesh IOT accomplish His Father's plan.
Philippians 2:5-8[/FONT]Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage. Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death--even to death on a cross.
Jesus took on the lineness of men. He was not always a man. One last reference, which was implied by the starting post here:
Hebrews 2:9 But we do see Jesus-- made lower than the angels for a short time so that by God's grace He might taste death for everyone--crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death.
Jesus was "made lower than the angels for a short time." That theology is heretical, unbiblical and very dangerous.
FA
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