I believe the term "it's ok to kill your enemies" comes with too many caveats to leave it on it's own. I don't believe it's an accurate representation of MY argument.
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Was Jesus a Pacifist?
- Thread starter Rebel
- Start date
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
I understand what you're saying. Is it ok to kill your enemies? There's no simple answer; there's too many situations to be considered. So, as a simple answer, yes, it's ok under the proper circumstances.
Revisiting this thread: I think it is clear from the words and actions of Jesus that He was a pacifist. I also think it is clear that the early Christians were. I confess I haven't made it that far yet. I'll defend myself, and that includes against religious punks and bullies.
I think, in the long run, you will be treated as you treat others. You actually seem to actively be looking for problems, lately.
And we have show that some early christians WOULD defend themselves. I referenced ole' August of Hippo hisself. Most of the critics have pretty much danced around the actual meaning of the word.
And we have show that some early christians WOULD defend themselves. I referenced ole' August of Hippo hisself. Most of the critics have pretty much danced around the actual meaning of the word.
Well, I meant earlier than Augustine when I said "early Christians".
I'm not looking for trouble or problems. However, there are some on here who think they have an infallible grasp of all doctrine and are quite fond of calling anyone who disagrees with them heretics and worse. I don't think that's right, and I said so. There are also those who love to stir up strife and discord. There is one in particular who keeps doing that to me, and I don't appreciate it. It's easy to make false accusations and attacks from behind a computer screen where you don't have to answer for it, but that's just cowardly. I'll be glad to meet anyone face-to-face, if they want to. Not a threat, just saying I don't have anything to hide. And this is not directed at you, btw.
Yes, you and I have had our problems, but I prefer to believe that's in the past and will stay there.
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There is nowhere in scripture that bans a nation going to war to protect it's citizens.
I submit Cornelius, who remained an officer in the Roman Army. Can't get much earlier than that.
I submit Cornelius, who remained an officer in the Roman Army. Can't get much earlier than that.
Here is a balanced article on the subject:
http://oneinjesus.info/2009/10/pacifism-the-early-church/
That is a very good piece.
If this is how you feel, then why make a statement like "I think it is clear from the words and actions of Jesus that He was a pacifist. I also think it is clear that the early Christians were."
I'm confused.
If this is how you feel, then why make a statement like "I think it is clear from the words and actions of Jesus that He was a pacifist. I also think it is clear that the early Christians were."
I'm confused.
I can be objective. I thought the article was an objective one that made good points on both sides. Personally, I am not a pacifist, but I believe we should strive to meet that ideal.
I do believe Jesus was a pacifist, based on His words and actions. And I'll qualify my earlier statement and say that I believe most early Christians were.
I always try to remain open to wherever the evidence leads.
Augustine of Hippo (4/5th Century) is post-Constantine. Like many converts, his views stemmed from his mentor, Ambrose. What all Christians, Augustine included, agreed on then was that you should not defend yourself. The question about 'just war' was separate.
For the first 300 years, the pacifist testimony was the rule.
A good quote for Pasca:
Justin Martyr (100-165)
“We who formerly used to murder one another do not only now refrain from making war upon our enemies, but also, that we may not lie nor deceive our examiners, willingly die confessing Christ. We who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,— our swords into plowshares, and our spears into implements of tillage, — and we cultivate piety, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father Himself through Him who was crucified.”
More quotes from the early Christians: https://christianpacifismblog.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/early-christians-and-the-sword/
Living our resurrection faith, following our King.
https://spurgeonwarquotes.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/living-our-resurrection-faith-following-our-king/
https://spurgeonwarquotes.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/living-our-resurrection-faith-following-our-king/
There is no way you're going to prove all early Christians were pacifists. Some may have been, some were definaty not.